Striving for peace!

[vetran]

+1

If I had neighbours like Israel's, I'd move.

Where to? I can't see Europe being keen to share either. Persecution of the Jews seems to have been global over the centuries.

Maybe we can give them Northern Ireland or Scotland and send all those that want to shout from the river to the sea off to the Haven of the new "Caliphate of Palestine"? We can send female University students & LGBTs for Hamas as well.

[vetran]

This quite interesting it covers Palestinian refugee status and "the right of return" something I hadn't quite understood.

[Zigenare]

This quite interesting it covers Palestinian refugee status and "the right of return" something I hadn't quite understood.

An interesting exercise in explaining why Palestinians born in "neighbourhoods" - not "refugee camps", mustn't use that term; should not be allowed to return to their homeland.

Now explain to me how a Jew born in Europe or the United States has the right to call Israel "their homeland"?

[vetran]

An interesting exercise in explaining why Palestinians born in "neighbourhoods" - not "refugee camps", mustn't use that term; should not be allowed to return to their homeland.

Now explain to me how a Jew born in Europe or the United States has the right to call Israel "their homeland"?

As explained in the video where the Palestinians want to return to is a village in Israel they left when the neighbouring Arab lands told them to leave as they were going to obliterate Israel and the Jews. If they go back hey don't want to share it. i.e. they want Israel to disappear that is rather key.

Interesting point about the homeland its probably like all those plastic Scots running round in kilts having been born in Dagenham and not ever travelled past Watford gap believe they are related to Rob Roy because their great,great uncle had a crusty tartan sock.


You do know the Jews used to live in & around Israel historically before they were forced out by the Ottomans persecution.

The big thing is Israel want Jews in their homeland so will probably look favourably on a European / US Jews visa application. Its unlikely Jewish people will bomb a bus, detonate a car bomb or even rip down border fences to go on a vicious terrorist attack.

Many of the Palestinians are actually from Egypt who strangely don't want them back. The current population who aren't Egyptian are mainly born in Gaza/west bank.

[Zigenare]

As explained in the video where the Palestinians want to return to is a village in Israel they left when the neighbouring Arab lands told them to leave as they were going to obliterate Israel and the Jews. If they go back hey don't want to share it. i.e. they want Israel to disappear that is rather key.

Interesting point about the homeland its probably like all those plastic Scots running round in kilts having been born in Dagenham and not ever travelled past Watford gap believe they are related to Rob Roy because their great,great uncle had a crusty tartan sock.


You do know the Jews used to live in & around Israel historically before they were forced out by the Ottomans persecution.

The big thing is Israel want Jews in their homeland so will probably look favourably on a European / US Jews visa application. Its unlikely Jewish people will bomb a bus, detonate a car bomb or even rip down border fences to go on a vicious terrorist attack.

Many of the Palestinians are actually from Egypt who strangely don't want them back. The current population who aren't Egyptian are mainly born in Gaza/west bank.

You do know the Jews used to live in & around Israel historically before they were forced out by the Ottomans persecution.
You do know that the Palestinians used to live in and around Israel before "the Jews" started their land grab? - As for "the Jews" living in and around Israel - In the case the Ashkenazi Jews not for 1100 years but congratulations on displaying your ignorance.

Many of the Palestinians are actually from Egypt who strangely don't want them back.
How many? Also, why should Egypt accept Palestinians "back" and aid Israel in its ethnic cleansing exercise?

"Modern Israel" is an invention with tenuous links to ancient Israel - adopting an archaic language to seek to "legitimise" its claims and posession of a land.

[malvolio]

You do know the Jews used to live in & around Israel historically before they were forced out by the Ottomans persecution.
You do know that the Palestinians used to live in and around Israel before "the Jews" started their land grab? - As for "the Jews" living in and around Israel - In the case the Ashkenazi Jews not for 1100 years but congratulations on displaying your ignorance.

Many of the Palestinians are actually from Egypt who strangely don't want them back.
How many? Also, why should Egypt accept Palestinians "back" and aid Israel in its ethnic cleansing exercise?

"Modern Israel" is an invention with tenuous links to ancient Israel - adopting an archaic language to seek to "legitimise" its claims and posession of a land.

You persist in mixing ancient and modern history. The reality is Israel was granted to the Jews in reparation for the horrors of Nazi Germany and they decided their ancient homeland would be a suitable e place for a new homeland. There was much struggle to establish that new Israel but it was eventually settled and admitted as a sovereign nation. They have been fighting to defend it ever since and, as I have said before, most of the land grabs have been primarily to secure their borders: for example, the Golan Heights are not somewhere you want to allow a heavily armed terrorist group aiming for your destruction to be located.

Yes they have behaved on the edges of international law and overstepped the mark on occasion (what country hasn't?) but they have every right to be where they are now.

You might also consider that most if not all the Palestinian opposition and military action is actually mostly illegal or proscribed groups acting on behalf of Iran and Syria who want to exterminated Jews (not, note, Israelis, but they don't make that distinction) but can't take direct overt action themselves.

[saptastic]

You persist in mixing ancient and modern history. The reality is Israel was granted to the Jews in reparation for the horrors of Nazi Germany and they decided their ancient homeland would be a suitable e place for a new homeland. There was much struggle to establish that new Israel but it was eventually settled and admitted as a sovereign nation. They have been fighting to defend it ever since and, as I have said before, most of the land grabs have been primarily to secure their borders: for example, the Golan Heights are not somewhere you want to allow a heavily armed terrorist group aiming for your destruction to be located.

Yes they have behaved on the edges of international law and overstepped the mark on occasion (what country hasn't?) but they have every right to be where they are now.

You might also consider that most if not all the Palestinian opposition and military action is actually mostly illegal or proscribed groups acting on behalf of Iran and Syria who want to exterminated Jews (not, note, Israelis, but they don't make that distinction) but can't take direct overt action themselves.

Agreed.
There are 57 'muslim' countries and one 'jewish' country.
Everyone can look at history and there are always arguments for and against that are probably valid.
But fundamentally there are terrorist groups funded by a fundamentalist regime who want to kill jews. No one should support this.
There would have been peace in the middle east if the fundamental leaders in Iran had a peaceful agenda.

Israel just wants the security that most other countries take for granted. It has learnt painfully you have to be pro-active to protect your citizens.
eg bombing Sadaams nuclear building programme - many years before he was considered a "threat"
Everyone would have very different views if they lived in a country where there are bomb shelters everywhere and your neighbours want to massacre you and have tried many times. When ISIS 'developed' no one was demonstrating about 'allies' bombing and trying to wipe them out.

And most of the arab countries are with Israel - they know Iran is the threat.

[vetran]

You do know the Jews used to live in & around Israel historically before they were forced out by the Ottomans persecution.
You do know that the Palestinians used to live in and around Israel before "the Jews" started their land grab? - As for "the Jews" living in and around Israel - In the case the Ashkenazi Jews not for 1100 years but congratulations on displaying your ignorance.

Many of the Palestinians are actually from Egypt who strangely don't want them back.
How many? Also, why should Egypt accept Palestinians "back" and aid Israel in its ethnic cleansing exercise?

"Modern Israel" is an invention with tenuous links to ancient Israel - adopting an archaic language to seek to "legitimise" its claims and possession of a land.

Can we agree that the Jews are descended from the Israelites who ruled Canan from around 1200 BCE?

https://study.com/academy/lesson/the...-timeline.html

Canaan contained the land known as Israel in the modern day?

The name Palestinian is from the Romans in the 2nd century. Derived from the Greek (Crete) Philistines who settled in part of Judea. It too is an invention (by the Romans to offend the Jews). Lets throw the Gaza residents out and turn it over to Greece or Italy! Bound to be less conflict.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

So my comment was true the European Jews were there before the Ottomans and a Millenia before many of the Palestinians?

Around 0CE the Jews were a Majority so it was 'theirs' historically before it was invaded by the Romans & Ottomans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...estine_(region)

Maybe Gaza etc should be given to Italy or Turkey? Again probably less conflict.

I am still not seeing when the Palestinians 'owned it'?

Yes Israel is an invention created by the then Legal owners of the Area (the British who acquired it from the occupiers the Ottomans after they lost in a war). Britain decided to give the land to form a home for the Jewish people to make them safe from persecution from their many host countries. This was then backed by the United Nations. To satisfy the invented Palestinians much larger areas of land were given to the small local Arab / Muslim population. If I own something legally normally I can call it what I like and give it to who I like.

If you own 10 acres and give someone 9 acres and another who owned the whole area before 1 acre you don't expect the one with 9 acres to bomb the new owner of the 1 acre and demand they give it up which is what is happening.

[vetran]

You persist in mixing ancient and modern history. The reality is Israel was granted to the Jews in reparation for the horrors of Nazi Germany and they decided their ancient homeland would be a suitable e place for a new homeland. There was much struggle to establish that new Israel but it was eventually settled and admitted as a sovereign nation. They have been fighting to defend it ever since and, as I have said before, most of the land grabs have been primarily to secure their borders: for example, the Golan Heights are not somewhere you want to allow a heavily armed terrorist group aiming for your destruction to be located.

Yes they have behaved on the edges of international law and overstepped the mark on occasion (what country hasn't?) but they have every right to be where they are now.

You might also consider that most if not all the Palestinian opposition and military action is actually mostly illegal or proscribed groups acting on behalf of Iran and Syria who want to exterminated Jews (not, note, Israelis, but they don't make that distinction) but can't take direct overt action themselves.

Well its complicated can't tell exactly how many. Modern and ancient history tend to mix, I am still struggling to understand how the Palestinians think they own the area of Israel, their ownership of Palestine could be disputed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...in%20Palestine.

In the late 18th and early 19th centuries, Egypt experienced significant waves of emigration to Palestine. One notable influx occurred in the 1780s due to a severe famine in Egypt. According to one estimate, approximately one-sixth of the Egyptian population migrated during this period, with many settling in Palestine.^[5]

The area of "Palestine" & Israel have been changing for centuries, Hamas etc want people to believe Palestinians are the historic owners of the land but many are modern immigrants. This is part of the story and needs to be told to counter their lies.

[vetran]

You persist in mixing ancient and modern history. The reality is Israel was granted to the Jews in reparation for the horrors of Nazi Germany and they decided their ancient homeland would be a suitable e place for a new homeland. There was much struggle to establish that new Israel but it was eventually settled and admitted as a sovereign nation. They have been fighting to defend it ever since and, as I have said before, most of the land grabs have been primarily to secure their borders: for example, the Golan Heights are not somewhere you want to allow a heavily armed terrorist group aiming for your destruction to be located.

Yes they have behaved on the edges of international law and overstepped the mark on occasion (what country hasn't?) but they have every right to be where they are now.

You might also consider that most if not all the Palestinian opposition and military action is actually mostly illegal or proscribed groups acting on behalf of Iran and Syria who want to exterminated Jews (not, note, Israelis, but they don't make that distinction) but can't take direct overt action themselves.

The Balfour declaration preceded WW2.It was in process before the Holocaust that just pushed the west into action.