The End Game

[SueEllen]

I don't get why a no-fly zone means a declaration of war.

It has to be enforced with force

[_V_]

It's very much time to get out of Europe I would say.

https://www.letsdeel.com/blog/remote-work-visas

[DealorNoDeal]

I can only see this ending in WWIII and the end of all life on Earth.

Same are WWII, how could WWII have been avoided once Hitler had invaded Poland?

If Hitler had had nuclear weapons, he definitely would have used them when the war started to unravel.

Is Putin as reckless/mad? God help us if he is.

[cojak]

But it isn’t the end game really, is it?

Because after Ukraine, Finland would be next…

[SueEllen]

But it isn’t the end game really, is it?

Because after Ukraine, Finland would be next…

As they aren't members of NATO....


Just did a Google - the EU would have to go in as peacekeepers, to prevent conflict or for the strengthening of international security.

https://eeas.europa.eu/topics/common...policy-csdp_en

[OwlHoot]

But it isn’t the end game really, is it?

Because after Ukraine, Finland would be next…

If their intention to join NATO looks like it will be realised, and Putin's threats in that regard are serious

[OwlHoot]

FWIW, I voted two(ish)

I don't think Putin ever had any intention of permanently occupying the whole of Ukraine, because for a start he doesn't have the manpower. Remember Adolph had two or three milion men in the Wehrmacht, and Stalin much the same I think, if not even more, and one needs those kinds of numbers to effectively occupy much hostile territory.

Putin wants only maybe a larger portion of East and especially south east Ukraine, so (among other reasons) he ends up with almost all Ukraine's wheat growing areas and he can make China more dependent on "Russian" wheat exports and stop them acting up over *their* border dispute with Russia!

All this current carry on in the rest of Ukraine is just to pin down Ukrainian forces while he consolidates his hold on Eastern Ukraine, and maybe to grab and eliminate the current Ukrainian leadership if he can, although how well his "cunning plan" is panning out we'll have to see.

China isn't the only country that needs the wheat: India and Pakistan are quietly rubbing their hands in anticipation, waiting to see how things turn out:

2022-03-01 Pakistan's helping hand to warmonger Putin: Imran Khan shamelessly offers to import two million tons of wheat AND buy gas from Russia

[OwlHoot]

I don't get why a no-fly zone means a declaration of war.

Obviously we'd all like it to stop, but a no fly one would be a Very, Very, Bad Idea

2022-03-01 Crackpot no-fly zone demand risks nuclear war

In any case, the Russians rely more on ground-based artillery than air attacks. because they don't have much in the way of high-tech precision bombs, or many pilots competent to use them.

[jamesbrown]

I don't get why a no-fly zone means a declaration of war.

Assuming it is more than merely a suggestion, it would eventually mean shooting down Russian planes. Short of a NFZ, I suppose you could use NATO jets to accompany deliveries of defensive weapons and have them assume a defensive posture (only return fire when engaged), but that ultimately risks an engagement between NATO and Russian jets so, again, very high risk.

[jamesbrown]

Because after Ukraine, Finland would be next…

Moldova (with Transnistria as the pretext), but yes.