Free money for the Yoof!

[WTFH]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-february-2021

JSA=340,000.

You know that we're in February 2022, not February 2021?
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-february-2022

[vetran]

And they'll take anyone who applies will they? Even by your standards this is condescending. Are you really so detached from reality in your professional middle-class bubble, or just trolling?


If the cost of forcing a minority who don't want to work through all these hoops to get their benefits was more than the cost of just giving them the benefits, would you still say so? i.e. are you arguing for economic reasons, or you just feel "it's not fair" that people get a pittance for doing nothing.
This is a central argument of UBI, that it simplifies everything and can end up saving money. I also morally feel that people should be encouraged to work which makes me instinctively dislike UBI but that is partly just my bias from a right-wing upbringing hearing about "scroungers" - should pragmatism win over idealism? Are those who put so much effort into not working best allowed to opt out?

Actually you will be surprised at who employers will employ if properly motivated.

In catering Keith Floyd style drinkers are very common, regularly too drunk to turn up for their shift yet they don't get sacked as they can't get anyone better.

You know many people working at Timpsons are ex cons? They are rightly very proud of it.

https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/timp.../ex-offenders/

Tesco actively recruit the less fortunate for some positions because they find the ones who stay are great workers.

https://www.evenbreak.co.uk/en/employer/tescoplc

We have all met the pensioner ex trade person at B&Q.

This middle class utopia I apparently live in, those I break bread with includes people who can't work, don't work, have crappy jobs or don't want to work. The years I did entry level jobs to pay for college are obviously totally forgotten, you of course still clean the toilets in Old people's homes and serve pissed punters in a restaurant that makes the Harvester look classy.

The ones who don't want to work tend to be those that have reviewed the benefits and their situation then decided earning a few extra quid as a headline figure and losing hundreds in benefits overall. Universal credit, training and reducing benefit access as needed is starting to address that.

Those that have embarked on a life of crime or addiction may use unemployment as a disguise. This certainly seems to be the case in the so called Poverty porn and police camera action shoplifter editions. If we force them to attend training virtually 40 hours a week via video then they have less time to follow their illegal activities.

Also as we have noticed during COVID & drug recovery positive role models and social contact are a good part of the success. My friend a lorry driver actually volunteered to help people to learn computing while he was unemployed and that helped him get another job. So hire the trainers from the ranks of the unemployed to inspire others.

The cost of this doesn't have to be massive, each claimant gets loaned a £50 Amazon or similar tablet, daily training sessions hosted by volunteers / contracted unemployed where you dress professionally and learn to read, write, (illiteracy is very common in prison & the unemployed) interview & job skills start at 8am finish at 5pm. Most companies offer charity days and encourage their employees to do community work I can see this being a popular option for many.

I would prefer to subsidise people getting back into work than locking them up for shoplifting / drugs or cleaning up after their spiral into self destruction.

[vetran]

You know that we're in February 2022, not February 2021?
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-february-2022

oops ta, was failing to multi task. The point about disguised unemployed still stands.

[Paddy]

Meanwhile Welsh pensioners on £500 a month die of hypothermia

[SueEllen]

Meanwhile Welsh pensioners on £500 a month die of hypothermia

It is not a race to the bottom.

All vulnerable groups deserve proper help.

[vetran]

Meanwhile Welsh pensioners on £500 a month die of hypothermia

indeed while there is a magic money press we are starting to run out of credibility on that front. Lets give it to the people who are in danger.

[_V_]

I fully support this, chuck another 10p on the income tax rates to make sure all unemployed people get a min income of £20K.

It's about time the wealthy middle classes paid what's due to society.

[d000hg]

I fully support this, chuck another 10p on the income tax rates to make sure all unemployed people get a min income of £20K.

It's about time the wealthy middle classes paid what's due to society.

One assumes you are trolling but the argument is UBI wouldn't actually cost very much. You give everyone a low income and adjust taxes so those earning pay it back. The theory being you save such a colossal amount of time and money not running complicated systems to decide who gets what.
Though it would mean a lot of redundant civil servants. So on the face of it there's no downside.

[SueEllen]

I fully support this, chuck another 10p on the income tax rates to make sure all unemployed people get a min income of £20K.

It's about time the wealthy middle classes paid what's due to society.

Go away Piers...

[ladymuck]

I don't have an issue with UBI as a concept but I just know that it won't be well implemented in the UK or its devolved nations.

To make UBI work, we need rationalisation and simplification of all taxes so that it gets paid for in a transparent way and it actually benefits those who need it rather than giving free money to the 1%.

I would expect UBI to be repaid / effectively not received according to your tax band - higher rate payers will essentially not receive it as it'll be cancelled out by their taxes and lower down tax bands will get a proportion according to what they earn.

What I'd want to see is some assurance that there won't be dodgy loopholes that enable top rate payers from keeping the cash. Hence why we need a full end to end tax review and overhaul first.

Sadly there seems to be no support for a total overhaul. Tinkering around the edges and adding faulty sticking plasters to complicate things further is all that will happen, so UBI in the UK will never work properly.