Oh dear - wages go up and signing bonuses.

[vetran]

on the other thread you argued that they should cut benefits to force people into work. Wouldn't that artificially undermine the market and push people in corners because... what else can you do? Starve?

what kind of governmental bot are you?

Benefits are a lifestyle for many, they are solid arguments for stimulating people back into work.

Benefits and the lifestyle issues associated with them are funded by tax payers.

The negative effects of being on the dole are well documented.

When the tories changed the law to push single mothers back into work when their youngest reached school age has proved a massive success. As has been limiting payments for subsequent children.

Initially a surplus of staff might drive wages down but as there is a massive shortage its probably not going to have much effect.

I see making a benefit lifestyle unattractive, when there are decent jobs available, to be a kindness - how about you?

[vetran]

Hove you ever seen Boris and vet in the same room at the same time?

Quod Error Demonstrandum.

qua totius

[GigiBronz]

Benefits are a lifestyle for many, they are solid arguments for stimulating people back into work.

Benefits and the lifestyle issues associated with them are funded by tax payers.

The negative effects of being on the dole are well documented.

When the tories changed the law to push single mothers back into work when their youngest reached school age has proved a massive success. As has been limiting payments for subsequent children.

Initially a surplus of staff might drive wages down but as there is a massive shortage its probably not going to have much effect.

I see making a benefit lifestyle unattractive, when there are decent jobs available, to be a kindness - how about you?

so a tory gov bot?

I would make sure that the mechanisms of free market actually work and that through regulation and universal basic income you would compensate for the imbalance in power that you have in the negotiation between workers and employers.

the sad part is that a good percentage of working people that are on 9-10-11£ ph are 'in-work poverty' we've had this going for 20y.

do the math how much would mean 10ph after taxes and compare it to the cost of life in many of the cities around the uk and you will understand that the only reason those people work is that: 1) they can't see other functional way around it. 2) they trust that world is a fair place and that is all they desirve while every month their credit card debt goes up.

If you have children and want them to grow free I would ask the hard questions now before it isn't too late.

did you know that the freest of the worlds once had CIA agents try to push Marthin Luther King into suicide. And they considered him the biggest threat to society?

In terms of how gov acts today in collusion with big tech and how Snoden and many others have shown... it is exponentially worse.
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/1...ing-fbi-letter

[WTFH]

I see making a benefit lifestyle unattractive, when there are decent jobs available, to be a kindness - how about you?

Excellent. Tax pensions and trusts. Since it's the over 60s that took all the tax breaks in the 80s & 90s, and are now campaigning for everyone else to be taxed harder to cover their extravagant lifestyles, then hit them in their pocket first.
Then go after those who benefitted most from the tax breaks and sell off of public services in the 80s & 90s. Had MIRAS? Pay tax based on the value of the property today!
Etc.

[vetran]

so a tory gov bot?

I would make sure that the mechanisms of free market actually work and that through regulation and universal basic income you would compensate for the imbalance in power that you have in the negotiation between workers and employers.

the sad part is that a good percentage of working people that are on 9-10-11£ ph are 'in-work poverty' we've had this going for 20y.

do the math how much would mean 10ph after taxes and compare it to the cost of life in many of the cities around the uk and you will understand that the only reason those people work is that: 1) they can't see other functional way around it. 2) they trust that world is a fair place and that is all they desirve while every month their credit card debt goes up.

If you have children and want them to grow free I would ask the hard questions now before it isn't too late.

did you know that the freest of the worlds once had CIA agents try to push Marthin Luther King into suicide. And they considered him the biggest threat to society?

In terms of how gov acts today in collusion with big tech and how Snoden and many others have shown... it is exponentially worse.
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/1...ing-fbi-letter

All the universal basic income will do is push up wages for people in demand. Inflation will make it worthless except to the people funding it.

The way to make sure workers have respect and fair conditions is not to import 6 million people that will work for less. When there is a shortage of resource the cos goes up its basic economics. The HGV drivers issue has been decades in the making but we could fix it in a few months if we work at it.

[GigiBronz]

All the universal basic income will do is push up wages for people in demand. Inflation will make it worthless except to the people funding it.

The way to make sure workers have respect and fair conditions is not to import 6 million people that will work for less. When there is a shortage of resource the cos goes up its basic economics. The HGV drivers issue has been decades in the making but we could fix it in a few months if we work at it.

it won't. that is what the ruling class would want to make you think because they would not want to give their position in this world or share it with anyone.

they might create some bulltulip jobs where someone does nothing for 40h per week and is depressing because it makes no sense and his life has no meaning but somehow he has to be grateful for it. but the other 75% of the society have to do jobs on subpar wage because we could not think of any other system without modern slavery and oppression

people should be allowed to live without work. if we've gained something through advancements in society is automation in most of the work environments.

you can get to feed 1000's of people with a factory run by 50 people.

it's only that the proceeds go to the ruling class. 95% of our wages go on food and rent when the houses are already built and probably only 2% of society actually works in food industry. and maybe 2-3% in NHS but we spend all our lives paying 95% of our income for 4 poorly built walls. who are we paying rent to? the decepticons?

[GJABS]

you can get to feed 1000's of people with a factory run by 50 people.

it's only that the proceeds go to the ruling class. 95% of our wages go on food and rent when the houses are already built and probably only 2% of society actually works in food industry. and maybe 2-3% in NHS but we spend all our lives paying 95% of our income for 4 poorly built walls.

I think that's right.

One way you could make this "dream" come true is to identify the bone-idle shirkers from among Britain's population, and ship them out to third world countries with low land and accommodation costs. In some ways that would be a good idea. Make benefits conditional on moving out of the country to somewhere like the Philippines.

i.e. just as you have ambitious people from third world countries like the Philippines coming to the UK to seek their fortunes and a better life, equally we should ship those of our own people who are moving in the other direction, out there in return.

[ladymuck]

I think that's right.

One way you could make this "dream" come true is to identify the bone-idle shirkers from among Britain's population, and ship them out to third world countries with low land and accommodation costs. In some ways that would be a good idea. Make benefits conditional on moving out of the country to somewhere like the Philippines.

i.e. just as you have ambitious people from third world countries like the Philippines coming to the UK to seek their fortunes and a better life, equally we should ship those of our own people who are moving in the other direction, out there in return.

That's a bit harsh on those countries that are trying to improve themselves.

[Fraidycat]

the sad part is that a good percentage of working people that are on 9-10-11£ ph are 'in-work poverty' we've had this going for 20y.

In work poverty?

Thats not so bad money, if you dont waste it

A couple earning 11ph (40 hours per week) plus overtime (say 10 hours pw) at 16ph (time and half).

Could each earn £600+ a week, £31000 a year. £2000 a month take home. £4000 a month after tax between them.

£48000 a year net.

I know a couple (Indian Immigrants) making that working in a factory (for the last 20 years, obviously not that much 20 years ago but now). Get good overtime rates. (Time and half on Saturday, Double rate on Sunday). Drive nice cars. Holiday abroad. They even bought some BTLs a few years ago as they had built up enough equity in the main home. He told me most of them at his factory have BTLs, all copying each other...

£4000 net a month is around what a contractor on £400 a day (almost 100K a year ffs) will net if caught inside IR35.

[WTFH]

I think that's right.

One way you could make this "dream" come true is to identify the bone-idle shirkers from among Britain's population, and ship them out to third world countries with low land and accommodation costs. In some ways that would be a good idea. Make benefits conditional on moving out of the country to somewhere like the Philippines.

i.e. just as you have ambitious people from third world countries like the Philippines coming to the UK to seek their fortunes and a better life, equally we should ship those of our own people who are moving in the other direction, out there in return.

Would "bone-idle shirkers" include those who live off the family inheritance in their manor houses, or just "make money" but not anything of real value?