Every single IT project manager at a bank ever

[Snarf]

Sounds scary. My contract is probably going to be running for many more years to come due to the amount of new work that always comes through (I am a software developer) but I can't quit a 600/d rate just because hypothetically someone might come for me in the future. My contract is very much outside of IR35 but I am starting to think that maybe I should use a substitute for a couple of days just to cover my own back.

You should be OK now though? Depending when the contract started, as I understand it the tax liability now lies with the client (or fee payer) not with the contractor.

Don't take my word for it though.. Check with someone else.

If however you want to substitute someone in just to show the clause is enforceable, Ill do a few weeks on 600 a day for you

[Snarf]

I am contracted with a small company so I still determine the IR35 status.

In that case I'd be looking to cover my back a bit, at the very least get the contract reviewed by QDOS, do the CEST tool, Get written confirmation of your working practices and maybe even put a substitute in for a few days - You mentioned you're a developer.. Any chance you can take a few days off while a sub contracted person tests your work?

[cojak]

I consider that picking up multiple projects after the original project is completed/cancelled puts you in HMRC’s cross hairs, and that could be after 6 or 36 months.

I never accepted an extension once the project I was originally hired for ended (much to the surprise of managers).

[cannon999]

In that case I'd be looking to cover my back a bit, at the very least get the contract reviewed by QDOS, do the CEST tool, Get written confirmation of your working practices and maybe even put a substitute in for a few days - You mentioned you're a developer.. Any chance you can take a few days off while a sub contracted person tests your work?

Yeah each contract I get the client to sign comes with him signing off on the working practices as well. I also do QDOS contract reviews. Just the sub thing needs to be ironed out. I will make a point of hiring subcontractors this year just to give myself more protection.


How do they even find contractors to go after I wonder? Wonder if some people are more at risk than others. This guy was working at a bank so that's easy pickings but how did HMRC know where he worked? Company accounts don't list client names unless they deduced this from VAT transactions.

[cannon999]

I consider that picking up multiple projects after the original project is completed/cancelled puts you in HMRC’s cross hairs, and that could be after 6 or 36 months.

I never accepted an extension once the project I was originally hired for ended (much to the surprise of managers).

What happens if there is no 'end' to the project? Constant new features are required to be developed for years and years?

[jamesbrown]

This seems to make the most sense and is just the start of a world of pain for the contractor losing the case. You'd imagine it will kick off a very long and painful exercise in trying to work with HMRC to work out what you've paid and argue the toss with them when really they won't care and will want every penny regardless of what you've paid before.

This seems to tie in with the comment I remember reading that what you've paid already doesn't factor in to it and there is no way of working it backwards to come to an amicable solution. You owe them 70k, that's that. It will appear grossly unfair as you've already paid a chunk but it is what it is.

The HMRC view will always be the most combative possible because that's how they operate, partly to act as a deterrent. Their idea of "fairness" is to the Exchequer and not the tax payer. Information about taxes paid rarely becomes public, but I would be surprised if taxes already paid had not been accounted for in most cases, perhaps even fully. Nevertheless, again, there are no guarantees and it may require the tribunal judge to rule, assuming it gets that far, so there is reason to be concerned about whether the final tax bill will reflect the difference between taxes paid and full PAYE/NICs, even before any penalties, or a larger amount. If you read some of the tribunal rulings, there are hints within them that HMRC's starting position is that CT will not be refunded (but that is probably not the ending position in most cases).

[northernladuk]

What happens if there is no 'end' to the project? Constant new features are required to be developed for years and years?

Multiple SOWs for milestone delivery. Big suppliers do it for clients all the time so if run in the same way it shouldn't be a problem there is no end to the project, just as long as there are ends to the SOW and then a new one starts.

[cojak]

What happens if there is no 'end' to the project? Constant new features are required to be developed for years and years?

Now, you and I know that is rarely the case, don’t we?

Design, development, launch is one phase of the Product life-cycle which can be viewed as a project, after that product development is just another word for BAU.

[Paralytic]

Like the younger generation would have done any different wrt IR35.

But it conveniently fits with the "boomer = bad people who stole our future" narrative for some of the younger generaton, in the same way that "millennial = self-entitled perma-offended snowflake" does for some of the older generation.

Some people just always need to have someone to blame when they feel something is missing in their lives.

[cannon999]

Multiple SOWs for milestone delivery. Big suppliers do it for clients all the time so if run in the same way it shouldn't be a problem there is no end to the project, just as long as there are ends to the SOW and then a new one starts.

I actually also bought myself out of the agency to go direct (there were various reasons why I wanted to do that). Wonder how that affects the whole IR35 thing. Or rather the client bought me out of the contract and I paid a chunk of what they paid to the agency to compensate the client. I mean I was taking on risk there as the client could have canned me before the end of the contract and I would have ended up £xxxx out of the pocket..