Covid - actually Boris may emerge as vaguely competent.

[vetran]

Really, the USA response wasn't incompetent, they were worse than us. (In my view the quad of deniers - UK, USA, Brazil and SA have a lot to answer to).

elgium is a strange one, but measuring it on deaths per capita is playing with figures.

If you genuinely believe that our response has not been incompetent we just have to beg to differ. We had since Feb to sort out PPE , did nothing, we had since March 2020 to sort out testing and tracing and we spent all that chasing PPE then lifted restrictions before we are ready. Which we will repeat again here. Test and trace HAS to work , or we need social distancing of some sort. Relying on everyone having 33% to 60% protection against a virus that no longer appears to be a slow mutant is another big risk.

Do go out, dont go out. ALL restrictions (including masks, social distancing the lot) by 12th June is INSANE. Sure try go back to normal with a working test and trace system, but still have masks for a while etc till you measure whats happening. Test and trace doesnt work at all, else the Indian variant wouldn't have taken hold as it has.

Remember, we can shout from the rooftops about 24 million people having a first vaccine, but right now, that vaccine would NOT have passed as good enough with 33% protection against the Covid we have now.

We are STILL gambling.

As I said vaguely.

Which other figure would you like to play with? Infections (reflects testing level not reality) etc. Death either by covid (defined by a medical professional) or with covid (assuming you test all dead) is the only reliable figure. Even then methodology changes.

Its all a gamble, any mutation could bypass any vaccine. Being the world's favourite vaccine AZ is most likely to be bypassed just because there are more opportunities for mutations to win.

[d000hg]

measuring it on deaths per capita is playing with figures.

I suppose we should measure it on feelings?

I would like to see figures for "death or serious harm". It's talked about as everyone who survives is OK but being hospitalised is serious and what % of those who don't die, barely survive and are going to have serious life-long problems from nearly dying?

[AtW]

No, you're making it up, but the only way to compare like with like is to use clinical terms not what you think.

Vaccine hesitancy is not based on clinical terms, it’s based on lies and real life stuff like that healthy BBC presenter who died from blood clots recently, healthy 40+ year old.

If death fro air crashes was 1 in 100,000 would you call it very very rare? It’d 100 times more than current US odds - people would not be flying with such odds, and what if odds actually 1 in 10,000 - clinically still very rare?

Public perception of VZ is seriously hit, more so abroad than in the UK but that does not bode well for markets other than 3rd world.

UK Govt knows it which why they got big order of Pfizer for autumn

[vetran]

Vaccine hesitancy is not based on clinical terms, it’s based on lies and real life stuff like that healthy BBC presenter who died from blood clots recently, healthy 40+ year old.

If death fro air crashes was 1 in 100,000 would you call it very very rare? It’d 100 times more than current US odds - people would not be flying with such odds, and what if odds actually 1 in 10,000 - clinically still very rare?

Public perception of VZ is seriously hit, more so abroad than in the UK but that does not bode well for markets other than 3rd world.

UK Govt knows it which why they got big order of Pfizer for autumn

AZ are probably fixing their jab now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nt-blood-clots

[AtW]

AZ are probably fixing their jab now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nt-blood-clots

I am 100% certain they are fixing and I am 99% certain they will fix it.

But given considerably lower efficacy (vs mRNA) they won’t sell many anywhere other than 3rd world where odds of 1 to 100,000 are indeed deemed very very very rare, well, before Facebook at least - VZ is now easy target for anti-vaxxers

[Scoobos]

I suppose we should measure it on feelings?

I would like to see figures for "death or serious harm". It's talked about as everyone who survives is OK but being hospitalised is serious and what % of those who don't die, barely survive and are going to have serious life-long problems from nearly dying?

Yes I totally agree, its akin to talking about "deaths" in war and not casualties.

I don't think any figure is able to measure anything yet, I genuinelly believe it will be years of analysis, verification etc before we know the truth. But for me, working with this Pandemic, my very strong "feeling" is that it's been a total disaster. No ones mentioning that we actually had stocks and plans for an influenza pandemic but privatised all of it after 2012 , with no due diligence or testing. The line of "we prepared for influenza and this isn't the same" is incendiary to a lot of people in the know. It wasn't a perfect match, but it would have worked, but it was sold and then subsequently cut.

We just keep playing to the political mantra of private sector over public , and its become very political in the UK - we are making the same mistakes over and over. Economies can recover, we don't know if people can recover if they get the "bad" version of Covid. We don't even understand why some develop serious disease and some don't , in terms of people under 70.

I'd rather play it safe, but politically I don't understand why we are continually using public funds to prop up private businesses. Wasn't the idea that Market forces would dictate and control what happened. If corporations don't financially plan for a disaster , then they should learn to do so, like the old "Reserve Asset Ratio" in banks.

But I digress, again Sorry

[vetran]

Yes I totally agree, its akin to talking about "deaths" in war and not casualties.

I don't think any figure is able to measure anything yet, I genuinelly believe it will be years of analysis, verification etc before we know the truth. But for me, working with this Pandemic, my very strong "feeling" is that it's been a total disaster. No ones mentioning that we actually had stocks and plans for an influenza pandemic but privatised all of it after 2012 , with no due diligence or testing. The line of "we prepared for influenza and this isn't the same" is incendiary to a lot of people in the know. It wasn't a perfect match, but it would have worked, but it was sold and then subsequently cut.

We just keep playing to the political mantra of private sector over public , and its become very political in the UK - we are making the same mistakes over and over. Economies can recover, we don't know if people can recover if they get the "bad" version of Covid. We don't even understand why some develop serious disease and some don't , in terms of people under 70.

I'd rather play it safe, but politically I don't understand why we are continually using public funds to prop up private businesses. Wasn't the idea that Market forces would dictate and control what happened. If corporations don't financially plan for a disaster , then they should learn to do so, like the old "Reserve Asset Ratio" in banks.

But I digress, again Sorry

Public funds come from taxing private companies and their employees.

[Scoobos]

I am 100% certain they are fixing and I am 99% certain they will fix it.

But given considerably lower efficacy (vs mRNA) they won’t sell many anywhere other than 3rd world where odds of 1 to 100,000 are indeed deemed very very very rare, well, before Facebook at least - VZ is now easy target for anti-vaxxers

Well, lets hope they do - because Pfizer is a HORRIBLE company with zero ethics and it costs multitudes more than AZ. We need AFFORDABLE jabs in the arms of 3rd world countries NOW - or this will jump to animals and back again and risk us having even worse in future.

We need to LEARN From this - we are ONE world, the butterfly effect is proven now. We need to vaccinate everyone, evenly at pace. We can space race, and build nuclear weapons, we COULD do this as a world if we wanted to. I'm dreaming I know.

Getting the UK vaccinated wont help us when variants come round again , this is SarS2 remember.

[Scoobos]

Public funds come from taxing private companies and their employees.

Yeah which ones though? That's a key point.

[d000hg]

Pfizer [...] costs multitudes more than AZ.

Try again