Defund this Policeman?

[Whorty]

Because ostentatiously pearl clutching about poverty is not his job! He's there to catch villains, and prevent crime, and that's all!

Exactly, he's there to prevent crime. And maybe he thinks spending more on education, and giving people opportunities, may help to reduce crime. It's not about giving people handouts, it's about giving people options - if you have nothing, there is nothing to lose if you commit a crime and get caught. However, if you have something to lose, you are less likely to risk it by committing a crime.

Or ... we could keep doing what we are doing and see whether that works any better this year than it did the last x years (fill in your value of x that makes you feel good).

[vetran]

You've answered a question with a question. Instead of deflecting, why not give a reasoned argument why helping people out of poverty, maybe via education and opportunities, is a bad thing?

I never suggested we shouldn't reduce poverty, however reducing poverty may not reduce crime.

As I said why do YOU believe poverty causes crime? Show your workings.

[vetran]

Exactly, he's there to prevent crime. And maybe he thinks spending more on education, and giving people opportunities, may help to reduce crime. It's not about giving people handouts, it's about giving people options - if you have nothing, there is nothing to lose if you commit a crime and get caught. However, if you have something to lose, you are less likely to risk it by committing a crime.

Or ... we could keep doing what we are doing and see whether that works any better this year than it did the last x years (fill in your value of x that makes you feel good).

Crime has risen over the last few decades yet poverty is pretty much abolished.

[NotAllThere]

I never suggested we shouldn't reduce poverty, however reducing poverty may not reduce crime.

All the indications are that it does. Obviously at some point you hit the diminishing returns because some people will always be criminals regardless. The aim is to make crime not an attractive alternative.

poverty is pretty much abolished.

Really? Got any evidence for that?

[_V_]

So do you believe crime is caused by poverty?

How many millionaires rob houses, mug old grannies, shoplift or joy ride cars?

[vetran]

All the indications are that it does. Obviously at some point you hit the diminishing returns because some people will always be criminals regardless. The aim is to make crime not an attractive alternative.

Really? Got any evidence for that?

Yeah because you go out drug dealing, murdering & raping (the crimes you highlighted) because your stomach is rumbling and you don't have a nice set of kiks.

Plenty of very poor people out there that don't break the law.

Some poor people and more frequently disenfranchised youths (frequently in care) become street drug dealers because they are targeted by drug dealers looking for disposable runners. That crime is going to happen anyway county lines is a counter measure to avoid capture not a comment on poverty.

There is a possibility that acquisitive crime may be caused by poverty but many shop lifters seem to steal Salmon & Steak rather than herring and ham and of course under the magic £200 value that the Police get involved at.

Now now wealthy get involved as well, i have frequently been made aware of children stealing nail polish etc when they can easily afford it for the thrill.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16469928


Note after housing costs. Strangely there are very few houses with an outside loo or no central heating its like we have left the Victorian times. Malnutrition nowadays is not due to poverty

https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-...sing-costs-ahc

Compare this with

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide...sbk/revision/2

Water is clean and drinkable, food is unadulterated, unemployment is not a death sentence etc.

Redefining poverty as being a bit short of cash does rather take the mick.

Now it is likely there is some link between being poor and breaking some laws - untaxed vehicle or tv, failing to pay council tax etc. But those are obvious poverty crimes we could solve.

Now lets rephrase the question how does being poor affect your experience of crime?

https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/f...tyandcrime.pdf

When crime and poverty are discussed, the typical debate is about whether – and how much – poverty makes someone crime-prone. This overshadows discussions about the law-abiding majority of the poor, and whether they are more likely to be the victims. Using extensive survey and crime data, this paper shows that in fact the poor are by far the most likely to be affected by crime. One of the worst aspects of being poor in modern Britain is the far greater likelihood of living near criminals and being their victim – and the fear this produces. While all law-abiding people would benefit from lower crime, it is those on lower incomes and those who live in deprived areas who would benefit most. Compared to households on incomes above £50,000, those on incomes below £10,000 are: • Considerably more likely to be attacked by someone they know and far more likely to be attacked by a stranger; • Twice as likely to suffer violence with injury; • Twice as likely to be burgled; • Three times as likely to be robbed and mugged; • Three times as likely to suffer rape or attempted rape; • Six times as likely to be a victim of domestic violence.

[Whorty]

Crime has risen over the last few decades yet poverty is pretty much abolished.

[vetran]

You've answered a question with a question. Instead of deflecting, why not give a reasoned argument why helping people out of poverty, maybe via education and opportunities, is a bad thing?

I have no issue with helping people work themselves out of poverty but with near full employment we still had a million plus people on the dole, there were jobs for them because 5 million EU citizens moved here to work. As above the link between poverty and being forced to become a criminal seems tenuous at best.

Millions of Asians & Africans have arrived here without recognised qualifications and found jobs.

Some people - our long term unemployed and career criminals don't want to better themselves. We have to force them to change and the Police are responsible for that.

So again why do you think poverty is the cause of crime?

The chap I knew that could frequently be done for GBH if caught was an heir to a significant fortune. It was the drink that did for him.
The chap who stole a motorbike was the son of a fairly well off craftsman.
My schoolmate who was done for stealing cars did so for fun not money - he did live in a council house though so maybe that is why he behaved like a moron? He did eventually go to prison for armed robbery but he actually had better education opportunities than me. He was white. He was just a pratt.
The girls /boys caught for shoplifting were frequently kids of rich stockbrokers etc.
None of these initial crimes were financially motivated.

[vetran]

ah manic laughter - you having problems understanding?

Do you believe that people are forced to starve in the streets nowadays? To live in substandard housing ignored by the government?

True poverty as defined before the welfare state has been abolished. Interested parties have now redefined it as being a bit short.

[Gibbon]

the link between poverty and being forced to become a criminal seems tenuous at best.

Boy was shot for refusing to join a gang, mother says | UK news | The Guardian

The story is in other papers (The Times) but behind paywall. On these sink estates there is massive (sic) pressure to join gangs.