Lazy Scrounger Contractors

[jayn200]

Over my 10+ years of contracting, most contractors I have met are people who can't hold down permie roles and this is why they contract. In the early days there were more 'real' contractors who chose that life, but now it's more failed permies.

That's a weird claim to make.

I've really only seen 2 types of contractors.... first type is a genuine disguised employee who works at one client for multiple years within their hierarchy and is basically working as a contractor as a combined tax dodge plus a way to get paid more money and not fall within the defined salary brackets. You can't say they are failed permies because they are just disguised permies and obviously are able to keep their job for multiple years even though they have no employment protections. Second type is the highly skilled contractor who comes in and solves the problems / delivers the projects that the permies don't possess the skill set to do (most likely because the company is not willing to pay their perm staff enough to attract the type of skillset/talent required to deliver). I don't know how you call them failed permies, they are actually coming in to fix the failures of the permies and most of them had successful permie careers first.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

More whataboutery

See the image I put above. Expounding is valid and not whataboutery. Are you just hiding behind a word you read on the internet?

It does apply to you. You can, as a director, now claim 80% of your salary. If you have only been paying yourself minimum salary to save tax for the last X years, then you can only get 80% of that minimum salary.

Do you genuinely think that's a good justification? Like, do you really think that? I mean it's baffling to me on so many levels. You understand running a business is different to being an employee right? It sounds like you have this idea that PAYE is the One True Path and everyone else is gaming the system and therefore deserves less. Interesting that I'm a musician for fun and have a lot of professional musician friends, who are all struggling tremendously. If they complain I can just tell them to furlough too and say "It does apply to you! Perhaps you should have employed yourself under PAYE and paid double the national insurance contributions! Stop complaining!"

I've made sure I've always paid the right NI to cover my pension.

Have you though? You said you had an LTD. Did you actually pay the right NI contribution or did you pay enough for *the government to pick up the rest of the slack*? Perhaps you should check with your accountant as the standard contractor LTD model is to pay the minimum amount and the government picks up the shortfall.

I don't want to engage in the pity pissing contest, I'm trying to address the problem as a whole for the country. I'm sorry your personal situation sucks but I don't think we can design policy based on that (is that 'whataboutism'?).

Why would I get paid furlough? I haven't been furloughed.

If you're working only 2 days a week you should be able to get your umbrella company to furlough you I would have expected. Even if the actual reason for working less is not covid related.

As for you, if you're a LTD director then you can 'furlough' yourself and claim 80% of your salary (how any times do I need to say this?). But then, you would need to be furloughed and not running your company and presumably looking for a new contract (as wouldn't this be classed as a director working and promoting their ltd company?).

You can work part time under furlough's rules.

Don't know what your skills are but I'm still getting calls weekly for work so in my skill area there are still options out there. Maybe it's time to run your Ltd like a normal owner would and look to diversify into new skill areas?

Getting petty now. Yes I'll reskill after 2 weeks on the bench and instantly land a new job. Spoken like a Tory - Learn to program!

What I do know is whining on here or being jealous of what others have will not help you; neither physically or mentally. Maybe take stock of your situation and it's time to go back permie? Maybe do some training into areas that are more protected from situations like this - e.g. I have a set of skills that are not easily offshored/imported form cheap labour countries - may take a few years but maybe retrain to future proof your skills?

Sure it will, I feel much better for moaning about it. I'm exploring all options, I'm not just sitting here 24 hours a day tulipposting. I'm also trying to build some of my own products. It's not a dramatic change the world thing, it's just pointing out a small discrepancy that bugs me which has been blown WAY out of proportion by your blitzkrieg defense.

.

I mean, it comes down to, there's 2 models of being paid and the furlough scheme only accounts for the first and not the second. I don't think there's any reasonable justification for that, just because you're not PAYE doesn't mean you're raking in the money. Tax paid is likely irrelevant too. Any government aid to prop up earnings should in my opinion be based on earnings. I'm slightly miffed that it isn't. Not miffed enough to go around ranting about it, but disgruntled enough to post it onto a thread calling contractors 'scroungers' like we're the aristocratic elite stealing from the peasants. That's like the whole thing which has been blown out of proportion.

[LondonManc]

Not quite true .... the pot is there to help those in need; if you're not in need then why do you think you need to take from the pot? So no, it's not for 'everyone', just those in need.

What you're saying is not dissimilar to saying .... well, I pay into the NHS, and even though I'm well and healthy I want to take some of my money out now.

Personally i'll glad I'm not in need of help from the 'pot' and certainly don't begrudge paying into it and for it to be used to help those worse off than me.

And it should be assessed on circumstances.

My post is nothing like the NHS - the NHS provides a service, not money.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

That's a weird claim to make.

I've really only seen 2 types of contractors.... first type is a genuine disguised employee who works at one client for multiple years within their hierarchy and is basically working as a contractor as a combined tax dodge plus a way to get paid more money and not fall within the defined salary brackets. You can't say they are failed permies because they are just disguised permies and obviously are able to keep their job for multiple years even though they have no employment protections. Second type is the highly skilled contractor who comes in and solves the problems / delivers the projects that the permies don't possess the skill set to do (most likely because the company is not willing to pay their perm staff enough to attract the type of skillset/talent required to deliver). I don't know how you call them failed permies, they are actually coming in to fix the failures of the permies and most of them had successful permie careers first.

Yeah I'm not keen on this contractor superior to permie mentality.

There are some godawful contractors out there. I think they get by because they're really poorly vetted by employers. Recruiters are absolutely useless, they are non-technical and will sell their own grandma for a commission but companies rely on them. But they do it because they can get a lot of money even if they leave devastation in their path. Gotta respect the hustle.

As for other reasons why people go contracting, I do it because permie jobs are just so boring. The last gig I had they had a 2 year project to migrate a website, page by page, from an old technology to a new one. Who wants to do that for 2 years? I did it for a few months as a contractor, and it was dull and depressing, just sitting on my own working down a list of pages. Imagine if that was your entire life. Greenfield jobs are rare, but even if you land one you're just doing one project for years. I can't hack a permie job because they tend to just be so dull, often as a cog in a machine, too. I'll be a cog if I get to learn new tech or do something unique but I won't enjoy it after 6 months. I have a mate that was in the same permie job for 14 years! It's not the life for me. Doesn't mean he failed though, or I failed, just means we want different things.

Unfortunately though contracting seems to have a lot of tulip piled in with it, working at companies that are so hostile and unpleasant they can't retain perm staff, or working on really tedious projects. So I'm happy to be able to go in then get out a bit later.

[Whorty]

<snip>

You're clearly triggered by not getting what others are ... i've tried but not really much more I can add. You stay angry and post whiney comments on here if that helps.

[Whorty]

That's a weird claim to make.

I've really only seen 2 types of contractors.... first type is a genuine disguised employee who works at one client for multiple years within their hierarchy and is basically working as a contractor as a combined tax dodge plus a way to get paid more money and not fall within the defined salary brackets. You can't say they are failed permies because they are just disguised permies and obviously are able to keep their job for multiple years even though they have no employment protections. Second type is the highly skilled contractor who comes in and solves the problems / delivers the projects that the permies don't possess the skill set to do (most likely because the company is not willing to pay their perm staff enough to attract the type of skillset/talent required to deliver). I don't know how you call them failed permies, they are actually coming in to fix the failures of the permies and most of them had successful permie careers first.

Not weird, it's based on my own experience but you're right, there are also those 'permie-tractors' but I've never worked with them hence why I forgot to mention them. Are there many of these left?

[DoctorStrangelove]

There are some godawful contractors out there.

Yup.

Worked for me for years.

Failed as a permie.

Failed as a contractor.

Shut down more companies than I care to count due to my overwhelming Jonah effect.

[Whorty]

Yup.

Worked for me for years.

Failed as a permie.

Failed as a contractor.

Shut down more companies than I care to count due to my overwhelming Jonah effect.

[BABABlackSheep]

Been working all the way through. Wouldn’t expect anything otherwise, wouldn’t whinge about it. I knew the game when I started contracting.

Always confident of work because if I wasn’t I wouldn’t have quit my perm job all those years ago.

I get paid a tulip load for little to no responsibility. Find it strange people don’t think risk/reward isn’t a factor for us.

If it gets an issue, I can also go back and become a permie.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

You're clearly triggered by not getting what others are ... i've tried but not really much more I can add. You stay angry and post whiney comments on here if that helps.

Nothing is more cathartic to an engineer than a good ol' pointless moan, you should try it

Been working all the way through. Wouldn’t expect anything otherwise, wouldn’t whinge about it. I knew the game when I started contracting.

Always confident of work because if I wasn’t I wouldn’t have quit my perm job all those years ago.

I get paid a tulip load for little to no responsibility. Find it strange people don’t think risk/reward isn’t a factor for us.

If it gets an issue, I can also go back and become a permie.

It's amazing what dumpster fires you can walk away from with a hefty number of gold coins in your pouch. I'm just the gaffer. I just do what I'm told.

I find contracting to be generally very stressful though.