Lazy Scrounger Contractors

[TheGreenBastard]

As an average contractor you will have been earning 500 pd (£100K+ per year pre tax) and you're jealous of people on low wages in the service sector who might be getting 80% of £20k. If you're that upset why not get yourself a 'spoonies job when the pubs open up again and then you too can get all the 'benefits' of these 'lucky' workers?

I really don't get why people are so upset about what others are paid; you are never going to be happy being jealous of others and their take home.

"Contractors" want the duality of wanting to call themselves successful lone wolf small business owners in the good times, in the bad times they want to resent folk on £20K getting 80% furlough.

[LondonManc]

Contractors are no different to humans though. They've paid their taxes (usually!) so they've paid into the pot that is designed to help everyone in times of need. Either that or we become the USA.

[Whorty]

Contractors are no different to humans though. They've paid their taxes (usually!) so they've paid into the pot that is designed to help everyone in times of need. Either that or we become the USA.

Not quite true .... the pot is there to help those in need; if you're not in need then why do you think you need to take from the pot? So no, it's not for 'everyone', just those in need.

What you're saying is not dissimilar to saying .... well, I pay into the NHS, and even though I'm well and healthy I want to take some of my money out now.

Personally i'll glad I'm not in need of help from the 'pot' and certainly don't begrudge paying into it and for it to be used to help those worse off than me.

[vetran]

"Contractors" want the duality of wanting to call themselves Disguised tax avoiding employees in the good times, in the bad times they want the government to ignore their plight.

FTFY

you can't have it both ways unless you are the government.

now contactors should have a war chest and alternative sources of income but it is a shock not even getting a third of your normal take home in a pandemic when you are taxed as an employee.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

As an average contractor you will have been earning 500 pd (£100K+ per year pre tax) and you're jealous of people on low wages in the service sector who might be getting 80% of £20k. If you're that upset why not get yourself a 'spoonies job when the pubs open up again and then you too can get all the 'benefits' of these 'lucky' workers?

I really don't get why people are so upset about what others are paid; you are never going to be happy being jealous of others and their take home.

It's not 500pd of charity though, it's 500pd of having busted my ass off to get the skills/experience required to be able to earn that. And working as a contractor is very stressful. The people at spoonies have a much easier job and likely haven't contributed net tax.

Not only am I paying tax into furlough, but furlough is putting me out of a job. So I'm being taxed to pay for my own joblessness, for which I'm not being compensated.

It is somewhat annoying to be paying everyone else from my tax and paying myself from my war chest. I think I can rant a bit about that :P

You're basically saying if you earn a lot you don't deserve anything when you're not able to work. Which would be fair enough but that earnings discrepency is *already* catered for in all the extra tax we have to pay. It's double-dipping.

[Whorty]

It's not 500pd of charity though, it's 500pd of having busted my ass off to get the skills/experience required to be able to earn that. And working as a contractor is very stressful. The people at spoonies have a much easier job and likely haven't contributed net tax.

Not only am I paying tax into furlough, but furlough is putting me out of a job. So I'm being taxed to pay for my own joblessness, for which I'm not being compensated.

It is somewhat annoying to be paying everyone else from my tax and paying myself from my war chest. I think I can rant a bit about that :P

You're basically saying if you earn a lot you don't deserve anything when you're not able to work. Which would be fair enough but that earnings discrepency is *already* catered for in all the extra tax we have to pay. It's double-dipping.

Oh boo hoo you. Do you think you're the only contractor on here who busted their balls (sorry ladies ... tits) to get the skills and experience to earn a decent salary/day rate? And I've yet to meet a contractor in the real would who works any harder than a permie pro-rata, and we certainly get paid well for any extra effort we put in.

Again, if you don't like being a contractor because it's too hard, then go back to permiedom, or if you think 'spoonies is so easy then go get a job there. Effort for pay I know I have it easier than most service sector employees and I'm pretty sure that goes for all of us on CUK else we would be switching jobs.

And I'll restate what i said earlier - the pot is to help those in need irrespective of what you paid in. Tax is not like your pension where you pay X in and can draw down on that when you want it; it's also to help those in our society who often, through no fault of their own, are worse off than us.

I'm happy that I live in a country where the poor are not completely ignored (like they are in the US), although much more could be done of course.

Stop being such a little snowflake and be grateful that you're not walking in the shoes of the needy.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Oh boo hoo you. Do you think you're the only contractor on here who busted their balls (sorry ladies ... tits) to get the skills and experience to earn a decent salary/day rate? And I've yet to meet a contractor in the real would who works any harder than a permie pro-rata, and we certainly get paid well for any extra effort we put in.

Again, if you don't like being a contractor because it's too hard, then go back to permiedom, or if you think 'spoonies is so easy then go get a job there. Effort for pay I know I have it easier than most service sector employees and I'm pretty sure that goes for all of us on CUK else we would be switching jobs.

And I'll restate what i said earlier - the pot is to help those in need irrespective of what you paid in. Tax is not like your pension where you pay X in and can draw down on that when you want it; it's also to help those in our society who often, through no fault of their own, are worse off than us.

I'm happy that I live in a country where the poor are not completely ignored (like they are in the US), although much more could be done of course.

Stop being such a little snowflake and be grateful that you're not walking in the shoes of the needy.

Well, no, quite a few contractors on here are struggling there are certainly a few threads devoted to it. Unfortunately the magic help people money pot does not apply to them, or me, which is my gripe. Rather irritating to pay in when you're not allowed to take out, no?

Not sure if that last line is from the Tory manifesto? Be grateful you're not destitute on the streets? Maybe I can tell my mortgage lender to be grateful that they're not walking in the shoes of the needy...

[Whorty]

Well, no, quite a few contractors on here are struggling there are certainly a few threads devoted to it.

Whataboutery ... your complaint is that you're paying in and not getting anything out whilst others are.

Unfortunately the magic help people money pot does not apply to them, or me, which is my gripe. Rather irritating to pay in when you're not allowed to take out, no?

And there you are ... your gripe is you're not getting anything when others are. You've been working, you presumably have cash in the bank to live on. Those in real need don't have much, they survive month to month on their salaries that have now gone so they need whatever help they can get.

Not sure if that last line is from the Tory manifesto?

Wouldn't know, I don't vote Tory or read their manifesto.

Be grateful you're not destitute on the streets? Maybe I can tell my mortgage lender to be grateful that they're not walking in the shoes of the needy...

Do you have savings? Are you still paying your mortgage? Is what really upsets you that you're having to use your savings to pay your bills?

If you're a Ltd Director then under the new rules you can claim 80% of your salary. If you paid yourself mostly divis to avoid tax and took a small salary then maybe you need to use some of that tax savings now to pay your bills

And to be completely open, I closed my Ltd Co down a few years ago and my recent contracts were via umbrella Co's so I've been paying relatively more tax than you (if you're via a Ltd). For the past nearly 3 years I've had to go down to 3 days a week, and since Feb 2 days a week, due to caring for sick wife. So I'm well below most on here when it comes to income and I get nothing off the government in benefits. I've paid in for 30 years and never taken anything out, I'm Ok with this. Maybe stop worrying about what others have, and be grateg=ful for what you have eh?

And yes, I'm aware this sounds pompous. (Thought I'd add this as BR14 is currently banned so can't pop up with this comment )

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Whataboutery ... your complaint is that you're paying in and not getting anything out whilst others are.

I was addressing *your* point. Saying if you don't like it don't do it is a ridiculous way to address a country's policy. You don't like the government, you can always *leave*.

And there you are ... your gripe is you're not getting anything when others are. You've been working, you presumably have cash in the bank to live on. Those in real need don't have much, they survive month to month on their salaries that have now gone so they need whatever help they can get.

Why does that apply to me, and not to permanent employees? I'm only earning a little bit more than a perm doing my job once you factor in holidays etc and that quickly disappears once I'm benched. It's like a double punishment, you earn more, so you pay more tax. But then with what's left, you should also bail yourself out on behalf of the government.

Wouldn't know, I don't vote Tory or read their manifesto.

The tories are notorious for having the mentality of 'be grateful for what we give you'. You don't have to be very political to be aware of that as it's broadcast from every public space on the internet where someone can squeeze a political opinion.

Do you have savings? Are you still paying your mortgage? Is what really upsets you that you're having to use your savings to pay your bills?

As I say it's the discrepency of treatment. But since you earn more than me, maybe you should take some of your savings and use them to pay my bills? After all, *you should be grateful you have money*. Or do you think your tax contribution is sufficient? What's your opinion about your state pension? You don't need the government to give you a state pension right, because you earn lots of money. You should just use your savings to retire on, and let the government pay the state pension to other people who earned less than you.

If you're a Ltd Director then under the new rules you can claim 80% of your salary. If you paid yourself mostly divis to avoid tax and took a small salary then maybe you need to use some of that tax savings now to pay your bills

Are you saying that contractors should pay the same tax as permies and that we don't deserve the different tax system? Perhaps we're all just disguised employees, eh?

And to be completely open, I closed my Ltd Co down a few years ago and my recent contracts were via umbrella Co's so I've been paying relatively more tax than you (if you're via a Ltd). For the past nearly 3 years I've had to go down to 3 days a week, and since Feb 2 days a week, due to caring for sick wife. So I'm well below most on here when it comes to income and I get nothing off the government in benefits. I've paid in for 30 years and never taken anything out, I'm Ok with this. Maybe stop worrying about what others have, and be grateg=ful for what you have eh?

What I have is no job and no support income in a national crisis. The war chest is burning at both ends. Don't really want to enter a sob story pissing contest though as everyone's situation is different. Curious why you don't get paid furlough though?

Not being concerned about these things is how you get a government that is out of touch with its constituents. If money is rolling in for them, it must be for everyone else too, or perhaps they're just not working hard enough.

[Whorty]

I was addressing *your* point. Saying if you don't like it don't do it is a ridiculous way to address a country's policy. You don't like the government, you can always *leave*.

More whataboutery

Why does that apply to me, and not to permanent employees? I'm only earning a little bit more than a perm doing my job once you factor in holidays etc and that quickly disappears once I'm benched. It's like a double punishment, you earn more, so you pay more tax. But then with what's left, you should also bail yourself out on behalf of the government.

It does apply to you. You can, as a director, now claim 80% of your salary. If you have only been paying yourself minimum salary to save tax for the last X years, then you can only get 80% of that minimum salary.

Same a permies - they will get 80% of their salary. If this isn't enough to live on they will have to use savings to cover the shortfall.

The tories are notorious for having the mentality of 'be grateful for what we give you'. You don't have to be very political to be aware of that as it's broadcast from every public space on the internet where someone can squeeze a political opinion.

More whataboutery. I'm responding directly to you whining that you've paid taxes and others are drawing 'your' tax take and you can't (even though you can!)

As I say it's the discrepency of treatment. But since you earn more than me, maybe you should take some of your savings and use them to pay my bills? After all, *you should be grateful you have money*. Or do you think your tax contribution is sufficient? What's your opinion about your state pension? You don't need the government to give you a state pension right, because you earn lots of money. You should just use your savings to retire on, and let the government pay the state pension to other people who earned less than you.

More whataboutery. State pension is based on NI contribution. That's the rules. I've made sure I've always paid the right NI to cover my pension. My wofe is the same - always paid her taxes as a permie and NI, yet she is end of life and won't get to ever draw down on this - do you think I should be allowed to have her state pension?

As for me earning more than you, as I'm on 2 days a week and have been all year, and 3 days a week for the 2 prior years I'd guess over the past 3 years you've earned more than me. If you haven't saved as you took out too large a mortgage, that's your problem. Maybe when all this is over you'll have learned something important.

Are you saying that contractors should pay the same tax as permies and that we don't deserve the different tax system? Perhaps we're all just disguised employees, eh?

Yes, most contractors are the same as employees. We offer additional flexibility to companies and we get paid more for that but ultimately yes, most contractors are doing the same role as permies. Over my 10+ years of contracting, most contractors I have met are people who can't hold down permie roles and this is why they contract. In the early days there were more 'real' contractors who chose that life, but now it's more failed permies.

You can of course have the same tax system as a permie - either go via umbrella or go permie. I have chosen to go umbrella or FTC depending on the role. So again, I pay proportionally more tax than you.

What I have is no job and no support income in a national crisis. The war chest is burning at both ends. Don't really want to enter a sob story pissing contest though as everyone's situation is different. Curious why you don't get paid furlough though?

Why would I get paid furlough? I haven't been furloughed.

As for you, if you're a LTD director then you can 'furlough' yourself and claim 80% of your salary (how any times do I need to say this?). But then, you would need to be furloughed and not running your company and presumably looking for a new contract (as wouldn't this be classed as a director working and promoting their ltd company?).

You're either benched or on furlough is my reading - what do you normally do when benched?

Don't know what your skills are but I'm still getting calls weekly for work so in my skill area there are still options out there. Maybe it's time to run your Ltd like a normal owner would and look to diversify into new skill areas?

What I do know is whining on here or being jealous of what others have will not help you; neither physically or mentally. Maybe take stock of your situation and it's time to go back permie? Maybe do some training into areas that are more protected from situations like this - e.g. I have a set of skills that are not easily offshored/imported form cheap labour countries - may take a few years but maybe retrain to future proof your skills?