Thatcher 'saddened' by Pinochet death

[DaveB]

The socialists hate her because she had the guts to reveal just how evil socialism is.It is interesting how the left are so ridden with guilt and envy that they vilify anything that is "right wing". Castro (left wing) and Pinochet (right wing) ran their countries in pretty much the same way in terms of how they control their people. It is Chile that has been left with a legacy of prosperity whereas Cuba will be left with a legacy of impoverishment.

The reason Cuba is impoverished is largely down the the US embargo on trade and investment. Cuba's levels of literacy and social care are way above many other countries in the region despite this and given a chance to properly develop with international trade and investment it would be a major regional power, something the US has fought long and hard to prevent.

[DodgyAgent]

I've been in both countries. You're talking bollocks.

I usually do

[Cowboy Bob]

The reason Cuba is impoverished is largely down the the US embargo on trade and investment. Cuba's levels of literacy and social care are way above many other countries in the region despite this and given a chance to properly develop with international trade and investment it would be a major regional power, something the US has fought long and hard to prevent.

Cuba's healthcare system is ranked only 2 places below the US by the WHO - http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Given the relative wealth of the two nations, that fact should be completely embarrasing to the US given that they've been actively trying to destroy the infrastructure of Cuba for some time now via sanctions.

[sasguru]

While not a left-winger by any means, I agree with Benn0 on this one. There is no way a former Prime Minister should show solidarity with a brutal dictator and mass murderer.
Castro's actions are neither here nor there.

[Lucy]

While not a left-winger by any means, I agree with Benn0 on this one. There is no way a former Prime Minister should show solidarity with a brutal dictator and mass murderer.
Castro's actions are neither here nor there.

Well sas, she saved Britain from becoming another basket-case eg: France, so allow her the odd indescretion.

[sasguru]

Well sas, she saved Britain from becoming another basket-case eg: France, so allow her the odd indescretion.

Oh not that old chestnut, again ...Try not to believe all you read in the economic press. Yes it has its problems, notably not being able to provide jobs for its young but is France really a basket case? I think the vast majority of the population have a far higher quality of life (if not standard of living) than here.
Plus they have successful car companies, aviation industries, ship-building etc. And much higher productivity. And much less debt and no crazy housing market waiting to derail their economy.
If we take the number of economically inactive people in the UK (as opposed to the govts official rate of unemployment) you'll find we're not that well off.

[DodgyAgent]

Well sas, she saved Britain from becoming another basket-case eg: France, so allow her the odd indescretion.

The point that I was trying to make is that Pinochet and Castro are as bad as each other. Whilst I agree that Thatchers choice of "friends" is distinctly dodgy, it is interesting to note how the lefties react differently to "right wing" dictators than to "left wing" dictators. This in itself suggests that these people are more interested in their own ideologies rather than the injustices in the world.

The same applies to the US. Cuba was more a symbol than anything else. So the US probably conducted their policy towards Cuba, not because it was the most effective policy but rather because of what Cuba symbolised. The net result of course was that the Americans gave Cuba credibility that enabled him to hold on to power for so long.

[Bagpuss]

Tears are streaming down my face right now. Chile has lost one of its greatest sons.

But just to reiterate the point. Look at the Bolshevik Corporations website. Second paragraph in and we are already screaming about the man’s human rights abuses. It takes up half the story. The same goes for most other “mainstream” news sources.

The question is will the middle class / Upper middle class white champagne socialists write the same when their beloved Comrade Castro dies. Of course they will. Because as we all know, there’s no left wing bias in the media.

Ah Nicky G, hows the race hate campaign going?

[Lucy]

Oh not that old chestnut, again ...Try not to believe all you read in the economic press. Yes it has its problems, notably not being able to provide jobs for its young but is France really a basket case? I think the vast majority of the population have a far higher quality of life (if not standard of living) than here.
Plus they have successful car companies, aviation industries, ship-building etc. And much higher productivity. And much less debt and no crazy housing market waiting to derail their economy.
If we take the number of economically inactive people in the UK (as opposed to the govts official rate of unemployment) you'll find we're not that well off.

Do not get me started on France. I read more than the economic press ta.

The reason France has no jobs for it's young people is a lack of new industry, because it is bureaucratic to set up a business and almost impossible to fire someone. There is no culture of entrepreneurial business and the economy is not growing.

France has aviation because Airbus get government subsidies for R&D, as opposed to applying for loans like other 'business', shipping is mostly due to the navy.

I completely refute the fact that France has high levels of productivity, this is ridiculous. If there was the GCP would reflect this, GDP per capita has declined rapidly in the last 20 years. Their economy is stagnent, thanks to a culture of subsidies and an expectation of comfortable government jobs.

France's refusal to move away from high levels of protection and subsidy is a testament to their inability to compete in an open market.

[sasguru]

Do not get me started on France. I read more than the economic press ta.

The reason France has no jobs for it's young people is a lack of new industry, because it is bureaucratic to set up a business and almost impossible to fire someone. There is no culture of entrepreneurial business and the economy is not growing.

France has aviation because Airbus get government subsidies for R&D, as opposed to applying for loans like other 'business', shipping is mostly due to the navy.

I completely refute the fact that France has high levels of productivity, this is ridiculous. If there was the GCP would reflect this, GDP per capita has declined rapidly in the last 20 years. Their economy is stagnent, thanks to a culture of subsidies and an expectation of comfortable government jobs.

France's refusal to move away from high levels of protection and subsidy is a testament to their inability to compete in an open market.

Like all idealogues, your blinkered vision is only too apparent.
I happen to know France very well, my parents have a holiday home there and I lived there for 5 years in the 90s.
Yes you are right it is hard to set up and run a business in France because of red-tape. Yet it is wrong to say there is no entrepreneurial culture. One of my best mates runs his own business in France (textile machinery) and while he moans about the red-tape he is aggressive and makes money. It just takes a little more effort. He has strong competition from other SMEs too, so clearly there must be some business instinct.

Yes France has a culture of subsidisation. So does the US. We seem alone in the G8 in believing in pure competition with consequences you can see for manufacturing. Look at Renault/ Pigeot?Citroen which were subsidised and now are succesfully privatised.
With aviation - the UKs Plan B (as I was reading in the Times) is to buy Rafale fighters. Shame! We can't build our own like they can. Ditto shipbuilding - I believe the latest aircraft carrier is to be built in France? Who cares if it's privatised or not?

Regarding productivity, my assertion is supported by every economist including the govt's own figures:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=160