3rd world NHS

[CoolCat]

FTFY HTH BIDI...

While you may not like the NHS, its better than a lot of the alternatives....

Its better than precisely none of the alternatives in most of the developed world... why do we persist with this failed Stalanist experiment?

Copy from New Zealand, Belgium, Italy, instead of tolerating this disaster

[SueEllen]

No. People already in existence should get total attention. As should any foetus over 13 weeks old.

A foetus isn't a person.

You become a person in law when you are born.

Making a blanket rule about foetuses criminalises women who need a later stage abortion where the foetus being born isn't compatible with life and the pregnancy may kill them. We aren't Eire for fecksake.

[SueEllen]

Its better than precisely none of the alternatives in most of the developed world... why do we persist with this failed Stalanist experiment?

Copy from New Zealand, Belgium, Italy, instead of tolerating this disaster

Can you explain to me why the health service we always talk about is the US when there are lots of healthcare systems around?

[BrilloPad]

A foetus isn't a person. You become a person in law when you are born.

A very pedantic point - however you are correct. Personally I would change the law on that.

Making a blanket rule about foetuses criminalises women who need a later stage abortion where the foetus being born isn't compatible with life and the pregnancy may kill them. We aren't Eire for fecksake.

I agree about pregnancies over 13 weeks killing the mother should be exceptions.

However babies are born at 22 weeks and can survive. Being able to have an abortion at 23 weeks 6 days on request(without good medical reason) is sick.

[woohoo]

Regarding other health care systems, I thought that the NHS scored highly compared to other health services around the world.

Regarding insurance, I understood that the difference between USA and other countries is that insurance is controlled by the state rather than the USA where its privately controlled.

I don't understand what the difference is between having an everyone pays into a pot systems like ours compared to one where you have insurance companies but they are controlled by the state.

I'm pretty ignorant about this, so please set me straight.

[eek]

Its better than precisely none of the alternatives in most of the developed world... why do we persist with this failed Stalanist experiment?

Copy from New Zealand, Belgium, Italy, instead of tolerating this disaster

My expectation is that those systems only look better to you as you haven't got direct experience of them.

The grass is always greener on the other side until you taste it...

[BlasterBates]

The NHS is phenomenally cheap and therefore good value for money. Inevitably there are holes in the system.

As a pensioner in Germany you can expect to pay about 700 pounds a month if you're privately insured or around 300-400 pounds a month on the public insurance, and that's on top of your tax and national insurance.

That aint going to fly in the UK.

[CoolCat]

Regarding other health care systems, I thought that the NHS scored highly compared to other health services around the world.

Regarding insurance, I understood that the difference between USA and other countries is that insurance is controlled by the state rather than the USA where its privately controlled.

I don't understand what the difference is between having an everyone pays into a pot systems like ours compared to one where you have insurance companies but they are controlled by the state.

I'm pretty ignorant about this, so please set me straight.

I have lived and worked in a lot of countries, I and members of my family have got ill in many different places, so I have a lot of first hand experience of different health systems. So I base my opinion on first hand experience and not surveys which sometimes mark the NHS well, and more often do not.

Most of the old Europe (ie not the old Soviet states) do healthcare a lot better than here, as does New Zealand, indeed even for poor people much of the USA is far better in all regards (seen close up what really happens to poor people in the USA). I can compare and contrast to my treatment here, where mostly I have had to go private to save my own life, and watched close friends and family die needlessly at the hands of the NHS. Indeed chat to some hospice docs opened my eyes to a lot of the failures here.

One of the biggest problems with the NHS is you are not contractually entitled to anything, you have no right to any given treatment for any given illness you can enforce in court (like you would most other places, or with a proper medical insurance policy). You are left at the mercy of the local NHS, which can make decisions at its own whim. Clinical commissioning groups were setup to replace PCT's, supposedly to hand buying power to GP's, problem is mostly the old PCT staff just moved to the CCT's and GP's thesedays in practise still have little real power. Decisions are not made to follow patients (where they choose to live, what illnesses they get locally, etc) they are made to save money and make the local CCT look good in a spreadsheet.

The real thing that needs to happen in proper buying power needs handing to individual patients to take their healthcare spend wherever they want, including abroad or private, so that market forces force providers of care to react to patients seeing a better service elsewhere.

The NHS should be turned into a state backed medical insurance policy, which pays out according to need, and takes payment through tax... but the state should get out of owning, running and rationing providers of care. Individual patients should in the vast majority of cases be given the spend to take to any provider they choose.

With a little extra help to ensure services are available in rural places, and so on, then this is the best way ahead.

Top down, unaccountable, political fashions, screaming they always need more money is not an answer. Any money is not the solution.

[woohoo]

I have lived and worked in a lot of countries, I and members of my family have got ill in many different places, so I have a lot of first hand experience of different health systems. So I base my opinion on first hand experience and not surveys which sometimes mark the NHS well, and more often do not.

Most of the old Europe (ie not the old Soviet states) do healthcare a lot better than here, as does New Zealand, indeed even for poor people much of the USA is far better in all regards (seen close up what really happens to poor people in the USA). I can compare and contrast to my treatment here, where mostly I have had to go private to save my own life, and watched close friends and family die needlessly at the hands of the NHS. Indeed chat to some hospice docs opened my eyes to a lot of the failures here.

One of the biggest problems with the NHS is you are not contractually entitled to anything, you have no right to any given treatment for any given illness you can enforce in court (like you would most other places, or with a proper medical insurance policy). You are left at the mercy of the local NHS, which can make decisions at its own whim. Clinical commissioning groups were setup to replace PCT's, supposedly to hand buying power to GP's, problem is mostly the old PCT staff just moved to the CCT's and GP's thesedays in practise still have little real power. Decisions are not made to follow patients (where they choose to live, what illnesses they get locally, etc) they are made to save money and make the local CCT look good in a spreadsheet.

The real thing that needs to happen in proper buying power needs handing to individual patients to take their healthcare spend wherever they want, including abroad or private, so that market forces force providers of care to react to patients seeing a better service elsewhere.

The NHS should be turned into a state backed medical insurance policy, which pays out according to need, and takes payment through tax... but the state should get out of owning, running and rationing providers of care. Individual patients should in the vast majority of cases be given the spend to take to any provider they choose.

With a little extra help to ensure services are available in rural places, and so on, then this is the best way ahead.

Top down, unaccountable, political fashions, screaming they always need more money is not an answer. Any money is not the solution.

Anyway...
Back in the real world, if you arent brain dead, please feel free to reply to my post.

[WTFH]

The real thing that needs to happen in proper buying power needs handing to individual patients to take their healthcare spend wherever they want, including abroad or private, so that market forces force providers of care to react to patients seeing a better service elsewhere.

The NHS should be turned into a state backed medical insurance policy, which pays out according to need, and takes payment through tax... but the state should get out of owning, running and rationing providers of care. Individual patients should in the vast majority of cases be given the spend to take to any provider they choose.

With a little extra help to ensure services are available in rural places, and so on, then this is the best way ahead.

Top down, unaccountable, political fashions, screaming they always need more money is not an answer. Any money is not the solution.

State backed insurance is the WORST possibly solution. You say you have seen how poor people in the US are treated, then you say you've gone private in the UK.
The US healthcare system is one of the biggest jokes in the world.
Patients go to doctors telling them their symptoms and what they want prescribed.
Doctors are paid by drug companies and insurance companies to make sure the money flows the right way.
Treatment is not the aim, but money making.
US pharmas spend around $5billion a year on advertising to patients.
The US has the highest rate of opioid consumption - due to prescribing pills rather than healing people, because operations cost too much and there's a higher risk of being sued than there is if people are doped up to the eyeballs
And then I have worked with Americans who have insurance and are paying $5k a year, but with a long list of exceptions to what is covered.