Catalonia

[northernladyuk]

Besides the unrecognition of the use of excessive force, they are prosecuting the Catalan police for not cooperate with National and Civil Guards...this because they opted to protect the Catalans.

Spain is planning to finish the Catalan Police integrating them in Guarda Civil or National Police.

Spanish involvement in Catalonia is starting to look like a dying wasp. Shame they didn't allow the referendum to go ahead - it probably would have failed.

[northernladyuk]

So the Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliamentary session. The Catalan government doesn't recognise this and will press ahead with a declaration of independence debate on Monday. Meanwhile capital flight is reportedly underway and businesses are looking to move headquarters from Catalonia.

Really should have allowed the vote to go ahead and fall short of a majority...

[NotAllThere]

Does Catalan have an army?

[Bean]

So the Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliamentary session. The Catalan government doesn't recognise this and will press ahead with a declaration of independence debate on Monday. Meanwhile capital flight is reportedly underway and businesses are looking to move headquarters from Catalonia.

Really should have allowed the vote to go ahead and fall short of a majority...

What if it had succeeded, at say 52:48 ?

Are the supreme court just going to ban all future sessions (effectively removing autonomy) or just this week I wonder?

[northernladyuk]

Does Catalan have an army?

Is Spain going to send its army in?

[Bean]

Is Spain going to send its army in?

Well, if it did - the Catalans would need some kind of statutory right to bear arms and form (and regulate) a well governed militia, to protect the state from the federal government.......now where have I heard that before

[BlasterBates]

All Spain has to do is freeze their bank accounts and then they're f***ed.

[northernladyuk]

What if it had succeeded, at say 52:48 ?

Are the supreme court just going to ban all future sessions (effectively removing autonomy) or just this week I wonder?

A win is a win, if free and fair. But there's been no opportunity to hold such a vote. The logical flow that is being taken is:

• Self determination for a people is a right
• It should be realised through a free and fair plebiscite
• The Spanish constitution forbids this and the Spanish government and state frustrate it
• A free and fair plebiscite will be held in spite of the Spanish constitution
• A free and fair plebiscite held in spite of the Spanish constitution has been disrupted by the violence of Spanish paramilitary police
• The outcome of that disrupted plebiscite is the best possible reflection of the will of the Catalan people, given the circumstances
• The Catalan parliament will hold a vote to decide on independence, in spite of the Spanish constitution (which frustrates self determination, see above)
• The Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliament
• The Catalan parliament treats the will of the Catalan people as a higher authority and will meet anyway
• The Catalan parliament declares independence

And then they see how it plays out. The great tragedy (or one of them) is that a free and fair referendum probably would have failed. It may not be too late for the Spanish government to organise an advisory plebiscite to determine the will of the Catalan people. But I doubt they have the mindset for that. They'll continue to screw it up.

[NotAllThere]

Is Spain going to send its army in?

It's the final sanction when you rebels/secessionists/revolutionaries say to a government "Yeah? You and who's army?".

[northernladyuk]

It's the final sanction when you rebels/secessionists/revolutionaries say to a government "Yeah? You and whose army?".

It doesn't have a great track record of success, and would be difficult to pull off in contemporary Western Europe. And really, it would just increase the desire for independence in Catalonia. It may also see the risk of losing the support of the wider Spanish population, leading to events such as a general strike, given the living memory history of military dictatorship. Hard to see how it would succeed in the objective of keeping hold of Catalonia. It will reach the point when negotiations would be held. I'd love to know what conversations are going on in the background, including with other European states and the EU.