Project Management, do we need it?

[Lance]

Project Management, do we need it?

You comment is rambling, struggling to find your point. Could you put a bit more effort into it and make is concise?

Tldr.... The PM role is important.

Edit: it's general. I'm drunk. What's wrong with rambling?

[Whorty]

Whorty, lets not make this personal.

I'm asking a question because I don't see the value of a PM and I don't believe they should lead the development of a software product. I can't estimate how long a project will take and I know from experience neither can anyone else.

My first lesson managing a software project was if I impose a deadline, usually their estimate, on a developer they will do their best to meet it. They don't want to disappoint me, but they will deliver a piece of work that is incomplete and bug-ridden.

Now you can dismiss me and my views as those of a poor developer but that's the easy way out.

Sorry, the 'you' and 'you're' were not personal you but a generic you ...

As for estimates, you get the developer to estimate then you make a judgement call on if they are trying it on, over confident etc and add slack accordingly. A good PM should have the experience of working in that field (either an ex developer or been a PM doing the same type of projects) to know roughly how long a job should take.

Different analogy ... a PM on a building project. Would you expect the brickie, or chippy, or sparky, to manage the project, or would you want a PM who has managed a house build before? If you're the customer, would you want that PM to give you a schedule of work, with time and cost estimates or would you be happy that the 'developers' (builders) just crack on with it until they tell you it's finished?

A project is a project .... same principles apply whether you're building a software package, a house, a DC, refurbing a company office.

[woohoo]

Sorry, the 'you' and 'you're' were not personal you but a generic you ...

As for estimates, you get the developer to estimate then you make a judgement call on if they are trying it on, over confident etc and add slack accordingly. A good PM should have the experience of working in that field (either an ex developer or been a PM doing the same type of projects) to know roughly how long a job should take.

Different analogy ... a PM on a building project. Would you expect the brickie, or chippy, or sparky, to manage the project, or would you want a PM who has managed a house build before? If you're the customer, would you want that PM to give you a schedule of work, with time and cost estimates or would you be happy that the 'developers' (builders) just crack on with it until they tell you it's finished?

A project is a project .... same principles apply whether you're building a software package, a house, a DC, refurbing a company office.

No worries.

I would not use a building project as an analogy, it's too different. Most software products are unique, with different challenges. Developers are educated, highly skilled professionals. There is no reason why they can't organise and manage the development of a product. The fact you say the same principles apply to a house, a DC, refurbishing etc is worrying to me.

[Lance]

Project Management, do we need it?

Sorry, the 'you' and 'you're' were not personal you but a generic you ...

As for estimates, you get the developer to estimate then you make a judgement call on if they are trying it on, over confident etc and add slack accordingly. A good PM should have the experience of working in that field (either an ex developer or been a PM doing the same type of projects) to know roughly how long a job should take.

Different analogy ... a PM on a building project. Would you expect the brickie, or chippy, or sparky, to manage the project, or would you want a PM who has managed a house build before? If you're the customer, would you want that PM to give you a schedule of work, with time and cost estimates or would you be happy that the 'developers' (builders) just crack on with it until they tell you it's finished?

A project is a project .... same principles apply whether you're building a software package, a house, a DC, refurbing a company office.

If you compare a technical PM with a building PM then you've never worked with a good technical PM.

Example... A building PM knows that you can't put the roof on until the walls are built. A good technical PM understands dependencies like that. A bad one doesn't.


Edit: not sure if it was you who made the comparison.

[woohoo]

Tldr.... The PM role is important.

Edit: it's general. I'm drunk. What's wrong with rambling?

It's Wednesday and you are drunk, celebrating the mid-week hump?

[Lance]

Project Management, do we need it?

It's Wednesday and you are drunk, celebrating the mid-week hump?

Something like that. I'll check with Mrs. Lance if a hump is on the cards.

[SueEllen]

No worries.

I would not use a building project as an analogy, it's too different. Most software products are unique, with different challenges. Developers are educated, highly skilled professionals. There is no reason why they can't organise and manage the development of a product. The fact you say the same principles apply to a house, a DC, refurbishing etc is worrying to me.

Depends what you are building and some of the people I've worked with in software development aren't highly educated but some of those I've met in building things are.

[BrilloPad]

It's Wednesday and you are drunk, celebrating the mid-week hump?

Mid-week? I am lucky if I get a mid-year one with Mrs BP.

Hang on - you mean with Mrs MF? Got you now....

[BlasterBates]

I think building is an excellent analogy actually. What you need is someone similar to the architect who's main job is as a PM as well as being the "mastermind" behind whatever your building. If a PM is just an expert in Gantt charts and spreadsheets then I think PM would be the wrong term, I would say project co-ordinator or administrator, i.e. like an adjutant run around who you can dispense with to get the costs down.

[woohoo]

I think building is an excellent analogy actually. What you need is someone similar to the architect who's main job is as a PM as well as being the "mastermind" behind whatever your building. If a PM is just an expert in Gantt charts and spreadsheets then I think PM would be the wrong term, I would say project co-ordinator or administrator, i.e. like an adjutant run around who you can dispense with to get the costs down.

It's a bit disappointing that at least 3 people think building is an good analogy.

Regardless, I've not heard a really good reason for having a PM as the leader of software team developing a product.

Thank you for your answers though.