Project Management, do we need it?

[woohoo]

I've been thinking about project management for a little while, I'm not entirely convinced its needed, at least in software development projects.

A pal has written a couple of books on it and is doing the speaking circuit. He is doing well out of it and is pushing PM as a leadership role. It's all very much about emotional intelligence, leadership by example etc. But I think it places way to much importance on the PM role.

I've just read this article about PM, some of it is a bit of a rant but I agree with much of it.
https://techbeacon.com/project-manag...ftware-product

My experience with PM is that there is too much emphasis on deadlines and tasks. Rather than producing a quality product or even a product that just does what the customer wants, it's about finishing the task on time. It's about quantifying and reporting on tasks, even when we know it's not possible to estimate with any accuracy how long a task will take.

I'm not even sure a PM should be leading the project, for me the developers/engineers should be leading the project and perhaps it would be useful to a have a coordinator to pass information on and to sort admin tasks.

Are project managers useful or needed? Is it just a big con? Does agile remove the need for a PM or just give it another name?

[Eirikur]

Reading the above forget becoming a PM, because you have no clue what it entails

[BR14]

Reading the above forget becoming a PM, because you have no clue what it entails

excel and powerpoint and meaningless turgid meetings chaired by clueless numpties (PM's), in my experience.

[malvolio]

Yep, what he said. Erikur that is, not BR14...

[woohoo]

Reading the above forget becoming a PM, because you have no clue what it entails

I don't really want to become a PM, though I do have a degree in Organisation and Management and Prince 2 qualified. I've also managed several software development projects successfully. So perhaps I do know something, obviously not as much as you, perhaps you could expand on your comment?

[malvolio]

I don't really want to become a PM, though I do have a degree in Organisation and Management and Prince 2 qualified. I've also managed several software development projects successfully. So perhaps I do know something, obviously not as much as you, perhaps you could expand on your comment?

Well let's start with Agile removing the need. Agile is for delivering elements of a wider programme of work. Invariably somewhere above the Agile world there is a formal delivery plan unless you are in a speculative venture of some kind (and even then there is a higher objective). Someone has to manage that higher level plan.

Secondly, everything has a budget. Someone has to ensure that the constraints of that budget are met in terms of time and money spent, adherence to design and effective use of money and other resources.

Thirdly, if a PM-level meeting is dragging on or is apparently of a zero benefit that's either because the PM is a twat trying to micro-manage everything (there are a lot of them) or more usually in my experience the delivery team are not taking their responsibilities seriously. Neither obviates the role of the PM in any way.

And when the agile team bumps into a situation it can't resolve or needs more resources or any one of a dozen other risks to their progress, it's a PM that has to resolve it by working back up the management tree.

HTH. BIDI.

Incidentally, from my Service Management perspective, coders are the last in line when it comes to what an IT department is actually there to do. Does that mean we can do without them?

[mattfx]

PM's (good ones) can actually provide a lot of cover from senior management to project working groups or teams. I don't have experience coding, but I was on a project which incurred massive delays because one of the groups simply could not get a network configuration going, which stopped me cutting over Windows based services because the network wasn't ready. Did any of us get anything down the crap shoot? No. The PM took all of it from upper management and it was him having to sort everything out with the business, sort extended warranties for server hardware because they couldn't risk not having the servers under care pack, bla bla bla.

Do not underestimate the value of a good project manager; they shield you from a lot of what you'd probably consider boring business stuff.

[woohoo]

Well let's start with Agile removing the need. Agile is for delivering elements of a wider programme of work. Invariably somewhere above the Agile world there is a formal delivery plan unless you are in a speculative venture of some kind (and even then there is a higher objective). Someone has to manage that higher level plan.

Secondly, everything has a budget. Someone has to ensure that the constraints of that budget are met in terms of time and money spent, adherence to design and effective use of money and other resources.

Thirdly, if a PM-level meeting is dragging on or is apparently of a zero benefit that's either because the PM is a twat trying to micro-manage everything (there are a lot of them) or more usually in my experience the delivery team are not taking their responsibilities seriously. Neither obviates the role of the PM in any way.

And when the agile team bumps into a situation it can't resolve or needs more resources or any one of a dozen other risks to their progress, it's a PM that has to resolve it by working back up the management tree.

HTH. BIDI.

Incidentally, from my Service Management perspective, coders are the last in line when it comes to what an IT department is actually there to do. Does that mean we can do without them?

I agree that you need a roadmap for a product, not sure if I would call it a plan with timescales etc. Why do you need a PM to manage this?

So the budget, again why do you need a PM to manage this? Adherence to design, you don't need a PM for this.

Team bumps - I usually call up person X in the management tree and say hay we need this and that, can you sort. They do it and it's sorted. I don't think you need a PM for that.

Regarding your last point about an IT department, if you don't need programming work then you don't need programmers. Your question does not make sense.

[woohoo]

PM's (good ones) can actually provide a lot of cover from senior management to project working groups or teams. I don't have experience coding, but I was on a project which incurred massive delays because one of the groups simply could not get a network configuration going, which stopped me cutting over Windows based services because the network wasn't ready. Did any of us get anything down the crap shoot? No. The PM took all of it from upper management and it was him having to sort everything out with the business, sort extended warranties for server hardware because they couldn't risk not having the servers under care pack, bla bla bla.

Do not underestimate the value of a good project manager; they shield you from a lot of what you'd probably consider boring business stuff.

So do you need a PM for this. So far you have a barrier between senior management and administrative work. I don't think this means the PM should be the leader of the project.

Perhaps the software dev team could do with a coordinator someone that does admin tasks and reports progress and problems back to senior management. Or the team lead could do some of this.

When I've lead development teams I was happy to report to senior management and get the relevant people to sort out licenses etc.

[Eirikur]

The development bit is just a small part of the project.
Requirements gathering
RFP management
vendor selection
vendor management
stakeholder management
contract negotiation
design
build (here sits your tiny bit of development)
test
uat
documentatuion
acceptance into service

And the less formal stuff like listening to bulltulip from loads of people who think they need to have a say, or the BS from people who never got back to you during requirements and design phases and then suddenly wake up when roll out starts and start escalating to anything that has the title manager in their name