Prison T&C's

[Bagpuss]

If someone is a sociopath or a psycopath then no deterrant will ever work and, to be honest, prison certainly wont but what's the alternative? I don't believe it is a case of not thinking about the consequences, I think it is a case of being prepared to take the risk of being caught - if the penalty is less then there is more chance that the risk will be taken.

America is an interesting example - we have followed their lead in human rights and in removing personal responsibility so naturally our crime patterns are becoming similar.

Have you ever been to a prison in Greece or Turkey or even France? Atrocious conditions.

If someone has the possibility of change then that avenue should be investigated.
If we have a skills shortage, what's wrong in training prisoners while in prison, giving them proper qualifications, making councils take them on so they get proper work experience?

Of course if someone is beyond rehabilitation then let them rot.

Seems to me we just churn out better criminals, and making it more pointless won't improve that.

[John Galt]

If someone has the possibility of change then that avenue should be investigated.
If we have a skills shortage, what's wrong in training prisoners while in prison, giving them proper qualifications, making councils take them on so they get proper work experience?

Of course if someone is beyond rehabilitation then let them rot.

Seems to me we just churn out better criminals, and making it more pointless won't improve that.

But how do you judge who is beyond rehabilitation - many prisoners have been released early as it was deemed that had been rehabilitated and they have murdered, raped, robbed etc again.

You can only 'train' someone if they want to be trained. If they could be trained then why have the not responded to education before and got a job? Generally because they are greedy or lazy or up to the eyeballs on drugs

[Lucy]

But how do you judge who is beyond rehabilitation - many prisoners have been released early as it was deemed that had been rehabilitated and they have murdered, raped, robbed etc again.

You can only 'train' someone if they want to be trained. If they could be trained then why have the not responded to education before and got a job? Generally because they are greedy or lazy or up to the eyeballs on drugs

It is before adulthood, it is something in the raising of children and family life.

[Bagpuss]

But how do you judge who is beyond rehabilitation - many prisoners have been released early as it was deemed that had been rehabilitated and they have murdered, raped, robbed etc again.

You can only 'train' someone if they want to be trained. If they could be trained then why have the not responded to education before and got a job? Generally because they are greedy or lazy or up to the eyeballs on drugs

Maybe, but I think you can tell if someone is putting effort in, if you assess them on a regular basis. The carrot works better than the stick in most cases.

You have to admit just releasing people with no skills, no sense of remorse, and a chip on their shoulder against authority is probably not a good thing?

Re letting dangerous people out early, well that was due to miscommunication between the government agencies. Now the Home Secretary is vetoing many parole applications from 'ex' dangerous criminals.

[John Galt]

Maybe, but I think you can tell if someone is putting effort in, if you assess them on a regular basis. The carrot works better than the stick in most cases.

You have to admit just releasing people with no skills, no sense of remorse, and a chip on their shoulder against authority is probably not a good thing?

Re letting dangerous people out early, well that was due to miscommunication between the government agencies. Now the Home Secretary is vetoing many parole applications from 'ex' dangerous criminals.

How can you tell is someone is putting effort in or if they're playing along - you would have to have a panel of resident psychiatrists. I think the carrot approach works better for most normal people but not necessarily for violent or habitual criminals - they understand the concept of punishment but not encouragement. In their world violence is respected and expected. You are seeing everything from the perspective of a respectable, law abiding man with strict morals and ethics. Rehabilitation would work with you because you have the intelligence to realise its purpose but most hardened criminals either have no desire to reform or they are of sub-normal intelligence and so the carrot is a waste of time.

[Bagpuss]

How can you tell is someone is putting effort in or if they're playing along - you would have to have a panel of resident psychiatrists. I think the carrot approach works better for most normal people but not necessarily for violent or habitual criminals - they understand the concept of punishment but not encouragement. In their world violence is respected and expected. You are seeing everything from the perspective of a respectable, law abiding man with strict morals and ethics. Rehabilitation would work with you because you have the intelligence to realise its purpose but most hardened criminals either have no desire to reform or they are of sub-normal intelligence and so the carrot is a waste of time.

There must be some lessons to be learnt from countries that do manage to rehabilitate their criminals, unless there is something inherently different about 'ours'. I dunno, maybe there is.

I'm sure though there are people in prison who are fairly intelligent, although academically poor, they may not have had the stable family upbringing. I'm not making excuses for bad behaviour, I'm just saying that there must be some opportunity to make people mend their ways if they aren't a lost cause.

[Lucy]

There must be some lessons to be learnt from countries that do manage to rehabilitate their criminals, unless there is something inherently different about 'ours'. I dunno, maybe there is.

I'm sure though there are people in prison who are fairly intelligent, although academically poor, they may not have had the stable family upbringing. I'm not making excuses for bad behaviour, I'm just saying that there must be some opportunity to make people mend their ways if they aren't a lost cause.

For some odd reason I agree with you pussycat.

[Bagpuss]

You are me

[Lucy]

You are me

I'm not that fluffy.

[Ardesco]

Who's a fluffer?