Tory secret deal with EU

[AtW]

Won't happen!

EU refuses to keep talks confidential

Mrs May reportedly pushed for Brexit negotiations to take place in monthly, four-day blocks which would remain confidential until the end of the process.

The European Commission said this would be "impossible" given the need to consult member states and the European Parliament. "All documents must be published," the report suggested.

'Brexit cannot be a success'

Mrs May told the EU's delegates at the meal: "Let us make Brexit a success'. The EU's delegates, however, suggested that this was "rose-tinted" with Jean Claude-Juncker insisting: "This cannot be a success."

Mrs May appeared "surprised by this", the report suggested, highlighting how the UK successfully secured opt-outs from EU legislation on Justice and Home Affairs.


Seven things we learned from Theresa May's tense Downing Street meeting with Jean-Claude Juncker

[northernladyuk]

Won't happen!

EU refuses to keep talks confidential

Mrs May reportedly pushed for Brexit negotiations to take place in monthly, four-day blocks which would remain confidential until the end of the process.

The European Commission said this would be "impossible" given the need to consult member states and the European Parliament. "All documents must be published," the report suggested.

'Brexit cannot be a success'

Mrs May told the EU's delegates at the meal: "Let us make Brexit a success'. The EU's delegates, however, suggested that this was "rose-tinted" with Jean Claude-Juncker insisting: "This cannot be a success."

Mrs May appeared "surprised by this", the report suggested, highlighting how the UK successfully secured opt-outs from EU legislation on Justice and Home Affairs.


Seven things we learned from Theresa May's tense Downing Street meeting with Jean-Claude Juncker

Nasty mean bullies.

[SueEllen]

Bob, what's the package?

Since it's unelected civil servants doing the main wheeler dealing, with a few MEPs who actually do some work* thrown in for good measure, how is that suppose to work?

The story is a load of tulip.

*Anyone of them who isn't UKIP.

[Troll]

Won't happen!
EU refuses to keep talks confidential
'Brexit cannot be a success'

Indeed

Cracks appear in the EU's 'unity' as Juncker admits Brexit means less money and will force the bloc into 'tough' decisions about who pays more

[AtW]

Cracks appear in the EU's 'unity' as Juncker admits Brexit means less money and will force the bloc into 'tough' decisions about who pays more

That just means EU will be totally united in making sure that UK pays a lot of money for any "deal", say £350 mln per week might be acceptable, based on pre-Brexit exchange rates.

[scooterscot]

Britain hasn't been in this sticky a position since sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun.

So much for taking back control. More like loosing control.

[NotAllThere]

...
'Brexit cannot be a success'

Mrs May told the EU's delegates at the meal: "Let us make Brexit a success'. The EU's delegates, however, suggested that this was "rose-tinted" with Jean Claude-Juncker insisting: "This cannot be a success."

Mrs May appeared "surprised by this",

She's a bit stupid, isn't she? As far as Jean Claude-Juncker is concerned, Brexit will harm the EU. It can in no way be a success for the EU. Obviously she wants it to be a success for Britain, but that's not going to be in the best interests of the EU. From the EU perspective, Brexit is a failure by definition.

[WordIsBond]

That just means EU will be totally united in wanting the UK to pay a lot of money

FTFY.

It probably means the EU will be totally united for a trade deal since the UK won't pay them much (if any) unless they get a good trade deal.

It's all about money, really. The UK needs a trade deal and doesn't want to pay the EU any money. The EU wants money AND wants a trade deal for their own exporters, but also wants to punish the UK for leaving.

Money will win. Money almost always wins, except when you have a dictator who cares more about building/shoring up his power than he does about money.

So, they'll mostly forget about punishing the UK, since it would cost money. They'll get some of the money they want but certainly not all of it, and a good trade deal will happen because it's financially beneficial to both parties. That's what will happen unless May loses her nerve and starts conceding stuff, because she holds more cards than they do -- she's got 1) the money they need and 2) the export market they want. All they have to offer is 1) an export market she wants.

A trade deal is more important to the UK than it is to the EU, so they'll be able to tell her you're going to have to give us some money to make it happen. Then, they'll haggle about price. She'll say that we'll walk away, use WTO rules, make a deal with the US and India and others. They'll say you have to do this and that and the other. It's all posturing, negotiating ploys to affect the price. And the people who didn't want Brexit will wring their hands and scream and wail with every statement, even though it's all posturing, that the world is going to end, it's going to be a hard Brexit, Britain will sink into the Atlantic, blah, blah, blah.

Some of those people know it is all posturing, but they are posturing themselves for political purposes. Others don't have the business sense to realise that this is all just a negotiation being played out and that both sides are making public statements to try to weaken their opposite numbers by undercutting them with their constituencies, making it appear as if a deal is impossible except on unacceptable terms. The EU is trying to weaken May's hand. The UK is trying to weaken the Juncker's hand. That's all it is.

May wants a deal, but she says she'll walk without one so that Europe's exporters and cash-strapped governments will tell Juncker he has to do a deal. Juncker wants a deal but leaks that one is impossible and May is delusional to weaken her in the election in the vain hope that he can get Corbyn as his opposite number in the negotiation, or at least keep her from getting a massive majority. The terms of the trade deal are probably already pretty much known, everybody already knows what the other side's red lines are and where agreement can and can't be reached. These people may be foolish, but they aren't stupid, they know what the trade deal is mostly going to be. This is all about negotiating how many £s change hands as part of the deal.

Some of you guys may be contractors running a "business" but you aren't really businessmen. If you were, you'd recognise the business negotiations going on here in public eye.

[BlasterBates]

...and in business negotiations the stronger partner gets what he wants and the weaker one gets "stuffed".

[WordIsBond]

...and in business negotiations the stronger partner gets what he wants and the weaker one gets "stuffed".

Yeah, if one side is that much stronger. In this case both parties are pretty weak.

More than 40% of the French electorate voted for anti-EU candidates, and Le Pen may get more than 45%. Greece is still a mess, debt rules the southern half of the EU, they still have to have 0% interest rates. Unemployment is sky-high. The EU needs that money, and they need to do everything they can to keep exports to the UK rolling. And they have growing discontent over immigration. And they've been taking a free ride from the US defending their borders but Trump is talking about stopping that.

And of course, the UK needs a deal, too. Our finances aren't as much of a mess as theirs, but they aren't great. Our employment situation is better than theirs. But while we import from them more than we export, lack of a trade deal would hurt us proportionally more than it would them. We're a small fraction of their trade, they are a large portion of ours.

There's no "stronger" side here. The "Bremoaners" are constantly looking at our weakness and saying we're in trouble, but Europe is very, very weak, too. The Brexiters make the opposite mistake.

If either side were really strong, they wouldn't be leaking stuff about how weak the other side is. They wouldn't have to.