EU superstate

[unixman]

The parliament and council pass the laws. The Commission proposes laws and implements laws and it's probably fair to say they have too much power in doing both, but...

The Commission's role you describe is equivalent to the UK Cabinet. It makes decisions and proposes new laws. The EU and UK parliaments both debate laws.

The difference is that you get a direct vote to remove all UK Government ministers every 5 years, including the Prime Minister. Whereas you have no direct vote to remove any EU Commissioner, or the President, at any time.

Officials are not appointing or censuring each other. Democratically elected representatives are appointing or censuring officials. If the Commission are the officials then the UK equivalent is The Civil Service, and we have no power over them at all.

The European Commission is in no way equivalent to the UK Civil Service. The Commission is the EU's chief decision making body, roughly equivalent to the UK Cabinet. The UK Civil service has no law making role, and is a clerical force only. (Well, not totally true - senior civil servants can occasionally propose laws, but they won't go anywhere without Ministerial backing).

I'm not saying it's great, or couldn't be improved upon. Just that the oft repeated lie is wide of the mark

I just like having the power to sack my Government if I don't like what they are doing. Call me strange.

[unixman]

Rubbish, they just fook voters over early on and near elections give some token sweeties and make false promises in order to get elected, saying that the other party is worse, this is not democracy - it's bulltulip for mugs.

That's why being in EU is so important - At least one can move to another more well run state, where as politicians want captive electorate

People you can directly vote to remove are annoying you, so you'd rather have people you can't directly vote to remove ?

[SueEllen]

You clearly haven't done much research, have you?
If an EU commissioner leaves the post, the current govt gets to nominate the replacement. They can't change an existing appointment. I'm not sure I understand your Civil Service reference, EU commissioners have way more power than that.

Neither have you if you don't understand my comparison to civil servants.

Commissioners only have 5 year mandates so if a government wants their commissioner to go they only need to apply a little pressure. However if the commissioner, who was appointed by a previous government, is doing stuff fine and doesn't want to leave why change them?

[unixman]

Anyway commissioners are EU civil servants.

Commissioners are not civil servants. They are much more powerful than that. The Commission is EU's executive body.

The UK Civil Service is not the UK's executive body. That role falls to UK Government Ministers.

[Mordac]

Neither have you if you don't understand my comparison to civil servants.

Commissioners only have 5 year mandates so if a government wants their commissioner to go they only need to apply a little pressure. However if the commissioner, who was appointed by a previous government, is doing stuff fine and doesn't want to leave why change them?

You are deluded. Whatever their term, none of them are elected, they are appointed.
They are the equivalent of cabinet ministers in the UK, and yet they never have to stand for election. If you think that's a good democracy model, fine for you, but it is a million light years away from my idea of anything remotely resembling "democracy".

[SueEllen]

The European Commission is in no way equivalent to the UK Civil Service. The Commission is the EU's chief decision making body, roughly equivalent to the UK Cabinet. The UK Civil service has no law making role, and is a clerical force only.

The Commission is not equal to the UK cabinet.

Laws that the commission have proposed have been vetoed by MEPs so not even put to vote.

The proposals for laws come from members states, plus EU institutions.

The commission does boring admin things e.g. give custom codes to items.

[SueEllen]

Commissioners are not civil servants. They are much more powerful than that. The Commission is EU's executive body.

The UK Civil Service is not the UK's executive body. That role falls to UK Government Ministers.

You are presuming incorrectly that the function and names of the governance structure in the UK matches directly that of the EU. It doesn't. The same way the US governance structure doesn't match that of the UK.

[PurpleGorilla]

You are presuming incorrectly that the function and names of the governance structure in the UK matches directly that of the EU. It doesn't. The same way the US governance structure doesn't match that of the UK.

[IMG]https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1*7gyqFJCiPnzkogJ4tbq42g.jpeg[/IMG]

[Mordac]

The Commission is not equal to the UK cabinet.

No, sadly, they are way more powerful than that...

[AtW]

People you can directly vote to remove are annoying you, so you'd rather have people you can't directly vote to remove ?

I tell what I'd rather.... I'd rather not put myself in a position where I give a flying fook about who is the President of EU.

Yes, really - if your well being depends on it then you are already fooked.

Same goes for UK elections - one should arrange his life in such a way that decision of other people in "elections" won't affect it materially.