EU superstate

[AtW]

It is significantly different from the UK and every other Western state, where citizens can remove the leader and the whole government every 5 years. The led must be able to remove the leader.

It's the same as in UK - people vote in Parliamentary elections and the Parliament then forms executive branch - Govt.

Do you really think that electing EU President directly would change anything??? He is not exactly a very powerful person anyway, the real decisions are done by regular meet ups of member states who decide on real deal policy.

[AtW]

Just because there is no practical way to run a democracy does not mean we should surrender this basic and essential component of freedom. You are supporting an establishment that sits comfortably with its power and privilege protected by more power and privilege embodied by the Etonian establishment led by Cameron and Osborne. It may cost a bit to tell these people they cannot have absolute power but it is absolutely essential that they are kept in check.
If Putin had been 30 years younger he could have got Russia to join the EU and then bullied himself into power and running the entire EU. As it is there is no Putin or Hitler in the waiting just a collective of mottly bureaucrats who left to their own devices will without any doubt turn the EU into venezuela.

Putin would not have lasted 5 minutes in EU because he only holds his power because of full control over press and other branches of power - judicial, executive, legislative.

He'd never want to swap his place for being "President" of EU because President of EU can't do lots of things anyway.

Your examples for voting out are pathetic and irrelevant, in fact they are downright intellectually dishonest.

[DodgyAgent]

It's completely democratic -

1) member states have their own democratic elections
2) EU Parliament is democratically elected by voters in members states



Who said I want to throw that away? UK was a member of EU for a while before I came to this country, you are deliberately offering totally false choice. There is much bigger danger for really small countries because their say isn't as big as UKs, but for UK it's really safe thing to be member of EU - very influential member state, you vote UK out of EU and it will be Poland who will insist on tariffs for UK exports because UK will no longer let Polish plumbers in.

Poland has a considerable trade surplus with the UK

[AtW]

Poland has a considerable trade surplus with the UK

They would not have it because UK won't be able to afford it after Brexit.

[VectraMan]

I don't see practical way to have EU wide direct elections of President, the list of candidates would probably be in the hundreds and in any case I can't see it working, so using ELECTED Parliament as a proxy is OK. It's not much different from UK elections when people vote for the party and party later decides which ministers gets the post.

If there were an EU wide election of a proper President then he'd have a mandate from 500 million people, and that would make him much more powerful than any national leader. Then we would have an EU superstate.

It's ironic that the Outies seem to desire the very thing they complain about. Personally I don't want an EU superstate, and don't want a President.

The use of the word "president" is unfortunate as people equate that with Obama. They should have called him Chairman, or Chief Administrator or something like that because that's more accurate to what the position really is. Calling him president just gave the moaners ammunition.

[xoggoth]

It's not much different from UK elections when people vote for the party and party later decides which ministers gets the post.

It is very different. In UK elections we know who leads the main parties, who will be the PM if a party wins and who the leading members of that party are, so have a fairly good idea who the ministers will be. More importantly, all the parties reach out to all the voters and present their case. We are able to look at all sides, see how things affect other people in different parts of the UK or those with different incomes etc.

In the EU, the outcome is determined by disparate people from different nations who vote in their own interests. They have no clue concerning the parties elsewhere or what they stand for, no real knowledge of the issues that affect others and the real power is given to people we have never heard of as decided by backdoor deals between other people we have never heard of.

Unless there is some commonality, some community understanding, there can be no democracy.

[DodgyAgent]

Putin would not have lasted 5 minutes in EU because he only holds his power because of full control over press and other branches of power - judicial, executive, legislative.

He'd never want to swap his place for being "President" of EU because President of EU can't do lots of things anyway.

Your examples for voting out are pathetic and irrelevant, in fact they are downright intellectually dishonest.

You show me any precedent that proves the EU is going to work. My comments about Putin apply to the future as with any failing economy that without democracy totalitarianism will prevail. There is lots of history to prove it. The EU has already failed with its biggest task which is the economy. Why is it still in power?

[AtW]

It's ironic that the Outies seem to desire the very thing they complain about. Personally I don't want an EU superstate, and don't want a President.

+1

Uberpowerful EU President is the last thing needed here. Member states retain big control over EU and that's the only viable thing for now, I would not trust muppets in EU Parliament too much.

[DodgyAgent]

If there were an EU wide election of a proper President then he'd have a mandate from 500 million people, and that would make him much more powerful than any national leader. Then we would have an EU superstate.

It's ironic that the Outies seem to desire the very thing they complain about. Personally I don't want an EU superstate, and don't want a President.

The use of the word "president" is unfortunate as people equate that with Obama. They should have called him Chairman, or Chief Administrator or something like that because that's more accurate to what the position really is. Calling him president just gave the moaners ammunition.

If you do not want an EU superstate why are do you want to remain? I fancy it is probably the English loathing that drives people like you.

[AtW]

The EU has already failed with its biggest task which is the economy. Why is it still in power?

Because it's succeeded - countries want to join EU, rather than leave it - except the UK it seems.