EU superstate

[AtW]

So what. At least it is democratic that the people of the EU would get one man one vote.

So in your model of democracy women won't have right to vote???

[AtW]

So what's the date of the next election where I can vote to remove the Commission and the President ?

In 2019.

[unixman]

In 2019.

Thank you. Have you got a link on that ? If there really is a full suffrage election planned in 2019, where every EU citizen gets a vote to remove the President and Commission, I will very likely vote IN for the referendum.

[DodgyAgent]

In 2019.

How does that work then?

[unixman]

Alas, the 2019 election is just a European Parliament election:

European Elections

where you can vote for your a local MEP. You cannot vote to remove the President of the Commission. You cannot vote to remove the Commission. You cannot vote to remove any Commissioner. The executive, then, remains unsackable, unaccountable, untouchable.

The led must be able to remove the leaders.

[AtW]

Thank you. Have you got a link on that ? If there really is a full suffrage election planned in 2019, where every EU citizen gets a vote to remove the President and Commission, I will very likely vote IN for the referendum.

Next European Parliament elections will be in 2019, after those elections ELECTED Parliament will vote to elect new President.

I don't see practical way to have EU wide direct elections of President, the list of candidates would probably be in the hundreds and in any case I can't see it working, so using ELECTED Parliament as a proxy is OK. It's not much different from UK elections when people vote for the party and party later decides which ministers gets the post.

How does that work then?

Vote in EU elections.

[DodgyAgent]

Next European Parliament elections will be in 2019, after those elections ELECTED Parliament will vote to elect new President.

I don't see practical way to have EU wide direct elections of President, the list of candidates would probably be in the hundreds and in any case I can't see it working, so using ELECTED Parliament as a proxy is OK. It's not much different from UK elections when people vote for the party and party later decides which ministers gets the post.



Vote in EU elections.

So where has any economy prospered and enjoyed freedom for all its people without a proper democratic system? If there is no democracy there is no freedom. Of all people you should know. and to think that you came her to enjoy living in a free and prosperous country who's situation is entirely down to democracy, a free press and the rule of law and you now want to throw it away is pretty unpleasant.

[unixman]

I don't see practical way to have EU wide direct elections of President, the list of candidates would probably be in the hundreds and in any case I can't see it working, so...

A poor excuse. We can't have full elections because they are too complicated ? Yes we can. The Commission could institute them and publish a date.

Perhaps we should be asking ourselves what part of full suffrage democracy the Commission doesn't like ?

It's not much different from UK elections when people vote for the party and party later decides which ministers gets the post.

It is significantly different from the UK and every other Western state, where citizens can remove the leader and the whole government every 5 years. The led must be able to remove the leader.

[AtW]

So where has any economy prospered and enjoyed freedom for all its people without a proper democratic system?

It's completely democratic -

1) member states have their own democratic elections
2) EU Parliament is democratically elected by voters in members states

you came her to enjoy living in a free and prosperous country who's situation is entirely down to democracy, a free press and the rule of law and you now want to throw it away is pretty unpleasant.

Who said I want to throw that away? UK was a member of EU for a while before I came to this country, you are deliberately offering totally false choice. There is much bigger danger for really small countries because their say isn't as big as UKs, but for UK it's really safe thing to be member of EU - very influential member state, you vote UK out of EU and it will be Poland who will insist on tariffs for UK exports because UK will no longer let Polish plumbers in.

[DodgyAgent]

Next European Parliament elections will be in 2019, after those elections ELECTED Parliament will vote to elect new President.

I don't see practical way to have EU wide direct elections of President, the list of candidates would probably be in the hundreds and in any case I can't see it working, so using ELECTED Parliament as a proxy is OK. It's not much different from UK elections when people vote for the party and party later decides which ministers gets the post.



Vote in EU elections.

Just because there is no practical way to run a democracy does not mean we should surrender this basic and essential component of freedom. You are supporting an establishment that sits comfortably with its power and privilege protected by more power and privilege embodied by the Etonian establishment led by Cameron and Osborne. It may cost a bit to tell these people they cannot have absolute power but it is absolutely essential that they are kept in check.
If Putin had been 30 years younger he could have got Russia to join the EU and then bullied himself into power and running the entire EU. As it is there is no Putin or Hitler in the waiting just a collective of mottly bureaucrats who left to their own devices will without any doubt turn the EU into venezuela.