EU superstate

[unixman]

They're not jobs for life! The PM gets to choose the UK's commissioner, and Juncker was I think proposed by the EPP, the largest party in the European parliament made up of parties from nearly all (except the UK) member states. They don't get to continue without the support of somebody or other democratically elected which amounts to the same thing. Adding commission elections on top of the already poorly attended MEP elections will simply bore the public.

I didn't say the President or Commissioners had jobs for life. I said they cannot be removed by those they lead. The Commission passes laws, and those who are subject to the laws cannot remove the Commission. Officials appointing or censuring each other does not "amount to the same thing" as full suffrage democracy. In one case the led can remove the leaders (as they do in every western democracy). In the other, they can't. A fatal difference.

Why on earth would anyone want a state, passing laws, without full democracy anyway?

[Flashman]

I didn't say the President or Commissioners had jobs for life. I said they cannot be removed by those they lead. The Commission passes laws, and those who are subject to the laws cannot remove the Commission. Officials appointing or censuring each other does not "amount to the same thing" as full suffrage democracy. In one case the led can remove the leaders (as they do in every western democracy). In the other, they can't. A fatal difference.

Why on earth would anyone want a state, passing laws, without full democracy anyway?

Give it up Unixman. These morons have been posting the same drivel for months.

[Flashman]

But you must see that that is what the end game is surely.

They want to create a superstate and rule over all of Europe.

Indeed.



Sadly pretty much borne out by this thread.

A nice big quote in black and white but the EU luvvies won't even read it.

[original PM]

Indeed.



Sadly pretty much borne out by this thread.

A nice big quote in black and white but the EU luvvies won't even read it.

Indeed

Step 1 a single currency for ease of trade allegedly ✅

[VectraMan]

I didn't say the President or Commissioners had jobs for life. I said they cannot be removed by those they lead. The Commission passes laws, and those who are subject to the laws cannot remove the Commission. Officials appointing or censuring each other does not "amount to the same thing" as full suffrage democracy. In one case the led can remove the leaders (as they do in every western democracy). In the other, they can't. A fatal difference.

Where are you getting this from? The parliament and council pass the laws. The Commission proposes laws and implements laws and it's probably fair to say they have too much power in doing both, but it's still the directly democratically elected representatives that have the responsibility for what gets passed. The commission is answerable to the parliament and can be removed by the parliament. It's true that they cannot be removed by us the voters, but then neither can the UK government except by waiting for 5 years and voting for somebody else. If the commission are totally useless then it falls to our MEPs that we elect to do something about it. If the UK government are totally useless than it falls to our MPs that we elect to do something about it.

Officials are not appointing or censuring each other. Democratically elected representatives are appointing or censuring officials. If the Commission are the officials then the UK equivalent is The Civil Service, and we have no power over them at all.

I'm not saying it's great, or couldn't be improved upon. Just that the oft repeated lie is wide of the mark. Perhaps you should learn something about the EU before you vote to leave it? Seriously.

I don't know why I get sucked into this. I'm sure by tomorrow you'll have made up another version of reality to take into the polling booth.

Give it up Unixman. These morons have been posting the same drivel for months.

WHS.

[AtW]

Leaders behave differently when they know the led can remove them every 5 years. That's how things would get better. Almost every problem with Europe would improve. And in a fully democratic scenario, I might even vote for Junker.

Rubbish, they just fook voters over early on and near elections give some token sweeties and make false promises in order to get elected, saying that the other party is worse, this is not democracy - it's bulltulip for mugs.

That's why being in EU is so important - At least one can move to another more well run state, where as politicians want captive electorate

[AtW]

Future UK pensioners will be truly fooked if they can't move to low cost EU country after retirement - staying in is the best chance to actually retire not in dire poverty.

[Mordac]

A nice tier of adult supervision of selfish shortsighted UK politicians who can't be trusted to organise a piss up in a brewery

Fair point, well argued, but at least we get to elect the useless tossers.
Who ever voted for the EU President, members of the EU Commission, etc? Give you a clue, past UK "inserts" into the EU Commission include Neil Kinnock (a total chunt so utterly crap he couldn't even beat John Major in a 1 horse race) and Peter Mandelson (so totally corrupt he managed to get sacked from the Cabinet twice).
So to translate: "A nice tier of adult supervision" = "a bunch of total chunties with their snoughties deep in the EU gravy boat".

[SueEllen]

Fair point, well argued, but at least we get to elect the useless tossers.
Who ever voted for the EU President, members of the EU Commission, etc? Give you a clue, past UK "inserts" into the EU Commission include Neil Kinnock (a total chunt so utterly crap he couldn't even beat John Major in a 1 horse race) and Peter Mandelson (so totally corrupt he managed to get sacked from the Cabinet twice).
So to translate: "A nice tier of adult supervision" = "a bunch of total chunties with their snoughties deep in the EU gravy boat".

The UK government of the day appoints our EU commissioners. If you are going to appoint someone then you need a person who regardless of the party in power in the UK will work to secure the UK's best interests and also work with all UK political parties.

Kinnock and Mandelson clearly can do this but Corbyn can't, one reason why he should never be prime minister.

Anyway commissioners are EU civil servants.

In the UK you don't get to select who is head of the civil service or a government agency, they are appointed. So why do you think we should vote for our commissioners?

[Mordac]

The UK government of the day has the power to appoint any new / replacement EU commissioners. (FTFY) (No voting of any kind is required.)

In the UK you don't get to select who is head of the civil service or a government agency, they are appointed. So why do you think we should vote for our commissioners?

You clearly haven't done much research, have you?
If an EU commissioner leaves the post, the current govt gets to nominate the replacement. They can't change an existing appointment. I'm not sure I understand your Civil Service reference, EU commissioners have way more power than that.