EU superstate

[original PM]

+1

Uberpowerful EU President is the last thing needed here. Member states retain big control over EU and that's the only viable thing for now, I would not trust muppets in EU Parliament too much.

But you must see that that is what the end game is surely.

They want to create a superstate and rule over all of Europe.

[AtW]

Unless there is some commonality, some community understanding, there can be no democracy.

3.8 million votes for UKIP and how many UK Parliamentary seats did they get, 2, and you call that what, democracy?

[unixman]

It's the same as in UK - people vote in Parliamentary elections and the Parliament then forms executive branch - Govt.

Do you really think that electing EU President directly would change anything??? He is not exactly a very powerful person anyway, the real decisions are done by regular meet ups of member states who decide on real deal policy.

It is not the same. The EU Commission and the President cannot be removed. The UK Prime minister and the Cabinet can be removed every 5 years by the citizens they lead.

It is not the same. The UK Parliament does not "form the executive branch". The contesting Cabinet is publicly nominated while still in opposition, where it is called the Shadow Cabinet. The Shadow Cabinet opposes the Cabinet, pubicly.

Yes, I think having a fully elected President and Commission would change everything. Democracy does that.

[AtW]

But you must see that that is what the end game is surely. They want to create a superstate and rule over all of Europe.

No, it will never happen.

[OwlHoot]

Because it's succeeded - countries want to join EU, rather than leave it ..

That in itself should ring alarm bells!

The main reason many countries want to join is for grants and bailouts, or at least the potential for these if their economies flag, and guess who will pay for them.

[VectraMan]

If you do not want an EU superstate why are do you want to remain? I fancy it is probably the English loathing that drives people like you.

Ah self-loathing. I wondered where that was.

If there's a vote on an EU superstate I will vote no. And in the unlikely event that we can't vote no and remain in the EU I'll vote to leave. I promise. But that isn't the vote we're having. We have a responsibility in democracy and that includes to vote on the actual question and not some imagined future question because of something you think might happen even though you have no evidence for it.

[AtW]

The main reason many countries want to join is for grants and bailouts, or at least the potential for these if their economies flag, and guess who will pay for them.

You need to look at how much of your taxes are wasted in UK by the UK Govt and compared that with the amount paid to EU - the latter is not a lot to be member of a club and pay a lot less than supposedly equal members like Germany and France. UK got a fooking good deal right now, totally unfairly, but it's got it, so it would be insane to throw it away.

[AtW]

It is not the same. The EU Commission and the President cannot be removed. The UK Prime minister and the Cabinet can be removed every 5 years by the citizens they lead.

Look, how the fook things would get better if Junker is removed tomorrow, tell me - what exactly did he do wrong to be needed removal and who is the alternative candidate who you think is right.

Go on, tell me that.

[VectraMan]

It is not the same. The EU Commission and the President cannot be removed. The UK Prime minister and the Cabinet can be removed every 5 years by the citizens they lead.

They're not jobs for life! The PM gets to choose the UK's commissioner, and Juncker was I think proposed by the EPP, the largest party in the European parliament made up of parties from nearly all (except the UK) member states. They don't get to continue without the support of somebody or other democratically elected which amounts to the same thing. Adding commission elections on top of the already poorly attended MEP elections will simply bore the public.

BTW the British government was voted for by 37% of the people last time round. Even 63% of the people can't remove the UK Prime minister and cabinet.

[unixman]

Look, how the fook things would get better if Junker is removed tomorrow, tell me - what exactly did he do wrong to be needed removal and who is the alternative candidate who you think is right.

Go on, tell me that.

Leaders behave differently when they know the led can remove them every 5 years. That's how things would get better. Almost every problem with Europe would improve. And in a fully democratic scenario, I might even vote for Junker.