EU Referendum: Do we enough information to take the correct decision?

[darmstadt]

: Oh dear oh dear, that's exactly what Juncker and his pals want you and the rest of the little people to think.

Pray tell what exactly would we control and influence in this EU superstate? It's far more important to have control and the ability to influence our future as a country, like we've fought for the right to have for the last 1000+ years. Than agree to give it all up because we (may) get cheaper phone tariffs.

I'm gobsmacked as to why people (save the self interested) think staying in the EU is a good idea.

Well according to the majority of Brexit'ers, Germany and to a lesser extent France seem to be controlling it. What makes you think that the UK couldn't?

[PurpleGorilla]

Well according to the majority of Brexit'ers, Germany and to a lesser extent France seem to be controlling it. What makes you think that the UK couldn't?

Because we are not a founding member.

[OwlHoot]

means we can control and influence. That's a big thing to loose just for some short term gain.

Who said anything about "short term" gain? If anything there would be slight short term pain. It's the longer term most Brexiters have in mind.

Also, Cameron could achieve absolutely nothing substantial or binding in his recent negotations, with the imminent threat of the UK leaving the EU. Granted, he's a wimp and an abject coward when it comes to the EU and was walked all over. But given that outcome in the most favourable circumstances the UK could possibly have, and probably never will again, how much "control and influence" do you think we'd have after the referendum if the "remain" side wins?

Keep in mind the outies want retribution not change. ...

Again, what on Earth are you talking about? I've never heard of a Brexiter who wants "retribution".

Perhaps you're struggling to think of some other long word, such as "repatriation" or something?

And anyone with any sense knows we'll have plenty of change whichever way the vote goes. It's just that the Brexiters would like a democratic say in what it is.

[AtW]

Camoron has demonstrated over and over again, that we have no influence on the EU monolith.

We will have more influence outside the EU than in it, since in it, we have exactly zero.

Influence comes from invested money - Germany invests nearly twice as much and France a lot more than UK.

He he who pays the piper calls the tune

UK should at least double its contribution to EU, maybe triple for next 20 years - that's the way to gain influence in the club, not make constant demands for special treatment and reduce your contribution, I am actually amazed EU did not run referendum to kick UK out in the first place.

[scooterscot]

Who said anything about "short term" gain? If anything there would be slight short term pain. It's the longer term most Brexiters have in mind.

Also, Cameron could achieve absolutely nothing substantial or binding in his recent negotations, with the imminent threat of the UK leaving the EU. Granted, he's a wimp and an abject coward when it comes to the EU and was walked all over. But given that outcome in the most favourable circumstances the UK could possibly have, and probably never will again, how much "control and influence" do you think we'd have after the referendum if the "remain" side wins?

.

Everything the current government has done has been for the short-term, for themselves.

[AtW]

Everything every UK government does is for the short-term, for themselves.

FTFY

[Flashman]

Alistair Heath in the Telegraph.

Economists have a century of failure behind them. No wonder they back Remain now

Over the past few weeks, David Cameron and George Osborne have been claiming, over and again, that those of us who support Brexit have lost the economic argument. They want us to concede that we only really care about “sovereignty”, and to accept that this would come at a heavy cost in terms of forgone prosperity.

It’s a convenient narrative for the Remain side, and one which underpins its strategy to win the referendum. It’s also utter nonsense.

Nobody on the sensible Brexit side should accept that quitting the EU would be bad for growth, jobs or wages. The free-market, cosmopolitan, pro-globalisation economic case for leaving is stronger than ever; and the people who would run the Tory party and thus the country in the event of a Brexit largely believe in it

I believe that the EU’s anti-democratic institutions are unsustainable and thus pose a great threat to the liberal international economic order its UK supporters claim to be defending. That is why, dear readers, I will be ignoring the majority of economists and voting Leave

[scooterscot]

: Oh dear oh dear, that's exactly what Juncker and his pals want you and the rest of the little people to think.

Pray tell what exactly would we control and influence in this EU superstate? It's far more important to have control and the ability to influence our future as a country, like we've fought for the right to have for the last 1000+ years. Than agree to give it all up because we (may) get cheaper phone tariffs.

I'm gobsmacked as to why people (save the self interested) think staying in the EU is a good idea.

Our government can vote and lobby on our behalf to shape the union. The right has always existed.

The vote is nothing to do with EU influence on us. Prey tell me what punitive laws have been forced upon the UK that's causing us such grief?

The vote is occurring because our lack of interest in the EU over the years. We always treated like a side-project, paying into the subscription you always questioned but because it never amounted to much you ignored it. Now we're up to our eyeballs in debt we're trying to clear those unwanted debits without realising the consequences.

Short-term gain tosh for the posh.

Anyway the vote is going to be a easy remain majority. Thank goodness.

What's good on the boob tube tonight?

[DodgyAgent]

Alistair Heath in the Telegraph.

Economists have a century of failure behind them. No wonder they back Remain now

In 1999, The Economist wrote to the UK’s leading academic practitioners of the dismal science to find out whether it would be in our national economic interest to join the euro by 2004. Of the 165 who replied, 65 per cent said that it would. Even more depressingly, 73 per cent of those who actually specialised in the economics of the EU and of monetary union thought we should join – the experts among the experts were the most wrong. Britain would have gone bust had we listened: we would have suffered an even greater asset bubble and financial collapse. We would have been like Ireland and Iceland, begging for handouts.

The vast majority of economists did not foresee or predict the financial crisis or the Great Recession or the eurozone crisis. Yet they now have the chutzpah to behave as if they should be treated like philosopher kings, an all-knowing “profession” that we are all supposed to bow down to uncritically. It’s dangerous, self-serving nonsense, like all such elitist fantasies.

[Flashman]

In 1999, The Economist wrote to the UK’s leading academic practitioners of the dismal science to find out whether it would be in our national economic interest to join the euro by 2004. Of the 165 who replied, 65 per cent said that it would. Even more depressingly, 73 per cent of those who actually specialised in the economics of the EU and of monetary union thought we should join – the experts among the experts were the most wrong. Britain would have gone bust had we listened: we would have suffered an even greater asset bubble and financial collapse. We would have been like Ireland and Iceland, begging for handouts.

The vast majority of economists did not foresee or predict the financial crisis or the Great Recession or the eurozone crisis. Yet they now have the chutzpah to behave as if they should be treated like philosopher kings, an all-knowing “profession” that we are all supposed to bow down to uncritically. It’s dangerous, self-serving nonsense, like all such elitist fantasies.

Or you could trust Dave. You know the one who used to work for Norman Lamont. Him of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism fiasco.