Excellent article by Liam Fox on EU

[AtW]

Liam Fox is a cretin.

[original PM]

Liam Fox is a cretin.

Yes comrade

[RetSet]

So are you looking at the Swiss model or Norwegian model, or something different? If something different, how much will the UK have to pay the EU and what will the UK get in return in terms of benefits and obligations?

No need. Brexit would precipitate the demise of the EU.

We would then be in a position to put together something like a kind of European Economic Community

[PurpleGorilla]

No need. Brexit would precipitate the demise of the EU.

We would then be in a position to put together something like a kind of European Economic Community

Before the United Nations, there was the League of Nations.

A lean, fully democratic EU I would consider voting for.

Never going to happen though.

[xoggoth]

A lean, fully democratic EU I would consider voting for

Me too and many others probably. Unfortunately there is no semblance of democracy in the EU. Some say the EU is democratic as we have an elected European parliament but democracy is not just about voting, there has to be a process where those seeking to govern can reach out and communicate to all voters but that cannot happen in a huge community where there are many different languages and cultures. It is simply about each country voting for its own interests. Look how Eastern European nations defend the right for their citizens to work in the UK yet their governments are the most opposed to migrants entering their countries.

Not that the elected parliament really matters anyway, it is the unelected commission that makes the rules. This news item today sums it up:

The European Parliament has voted by an overwhelming majority to deny China the coveted prize of market economy status, warning that it would leave Europe’s battered industries vulnerable to a devastating flood of subsidized Chinese goods.
...
MEPs voted by 546 to 28 against the proposal, uniting Left and Right in an outpouring of anger over cheap imports of Chinese steel.
...
The vote is not binding...

[jamesbrown]

Me too and many others probably.

Damn right. Had Hamface achieved his promised "fundamental reform" from the Bloomberg speech, I would have grudgingly voted to Remain; afterall, it's a balance of costs and benefits. The renegotiation was a line in the sand: feck you, we're going to proceed with our United States of Europe, regardless of what you think. If they can't concede something meaningful under these circumstances, they're doomed (and us along with them).

[Old Greg]

Before the United Nations, there was the League of Nations.

A lean, fully democratic EU I would consider voting for.

Never going to happen though.

I would still be fascinated to hear how the boomers sold Singapore.

[AtW]

Those whining about democracy as if it's some kind of magic bullett - look at UK Govt, super democratic and uber tulip.

EU in particular needs strong hand to avoid populistic little tulips like Farage being in charge

[vetran]

That was before it got invaded by non-IT contractors, the mentally ill, the unemployed, the fantasists and the plain thick.

so when are you & MF (aka the Walter Mitty Brigade) leaving?

You are the one who keeps insulting everyone?

[darmstadt]

Look how Eastern European nations defend the right for their citizens to work in the UK yet their governments are the most opposed to migrants entering their countries.

I have worked numerous times in East European countries with no problems, it has not only provided me with further contacts to provide services but also broadened my outlook. You too, if so wished, could also work, live and play in these countries. As to the migrant problem, they're acting very much like the UK in that respect...

Not that the elected parliament really matters anyway, it is the unelected commission that makes the rules. This news item today sums it up:

I read the article, and your quote and if they're unelected then why:

The European Parliament has voted by an overwhelming majority...MEPs voted by 546 to 28 against the proposal

I think that says it was your elected representatives that voted for this