Junior doctors

[SueEllen]

Well done on highlighting that 4.5 year old Telegraph story. As I say, of all the debates around the NHS, the cost to individuals isn't one you often hear about. I am happy to believe the NHS is reasonable VFM.

Strangely enough, an article in yesterday's Guardian, of all places, was making a convincing case for increased privatisation in the NHS and highlighting some of the ways it performs worse than the insurance models followed in Japan, Europe and the US. Don't shoot the messenger! I was just surprised that the Guardian would print that. I've Googled but can't find it.

The Guardian is running a series of articles on the NHS. So if people go on the site they will probably find it themselves.

Also what you will notice is that all the patients stories praise it. It's like on one hand you get the Daily Fail where they slag of the NHS and on the other side you get The Guardian. I wish there was a paper who publicised balanced articles.

[DaveB]

The Guardian is running a series of articles on the NHS. So if people go on the site they will probably find it themselves.

Also what you will notice is that all the patients stories praise it. It's like on one hand you get the Daily Fail where they slag of the NHS and on the other side you get The Guardian. I wish there was a paper who publicised balanced articles.

They just stopped printing it.

Independent to cease as print edition - BBC News

[DaveB]

On least thing for today.

For those arguing that Junior Doctors are paid enough already and should stop whinging.

This is what they get paid:

First year out of Medical School : Between £22,636 and £25,461 depending on what scale the Hospital they work at pays them. At best they can expect £489 per week basic pay.

This is for a nominal 56 hour week, including on call hours, night shifts etc.

That works out to £8.73 per hour. Before Tax.

They may be able to earn more by working weekend shifts that pay a premium, which could put them up to £17 or so per hour but only for 8 hours. So an extra £70 for working a weekend.

By their second year they can look forward to up to £31748 pa. £610 per week. £10.89 per hour. Before tax.

These are the TOP rates pf pay on the current pay scales.

BMA - Junior doctors pay England | British Medical Association

They also pay £420 a year to the General Medical Council to maintain their registration in order to practice. They also have to have Professional Indemnity Insurance.

Once they finish their first two years they go onto the registrar scale. This generally lasts for up to 6 years before they can qualify as a Consultant. The top rate for a senior registrar who has been a doctor for almost 10 years by this point is £47,175.

So the doctor who treats you when you wind up in hospital could be earning little more than minimum wage.

[unixman]

They just stopped printing it.

Independent to cease as print edition - BBC News

So sad to hear about the Independent. I am old enough to remember its lauch, when it prided itself on being neither left nor right, and ran TV adverts to that affect. Slogan: "The Independent - it is. Are you?". Unfortunately, the Independent then changed into being the most left wing and aggresively PC of all UK newspapers, as I saw it.

I try to read all the papers. One coffee shop in my small town stocks only the left ones - Guardian, Indy - and the other coffee shop stocks only the right wing ones. So I browse the lot for free. Feeling a bit guilty for not buying the Indy more often now.

[mudskipper]

Last edited by unixman; Today at 14:34. Reason: can't spell independent

You missed one

[FatLazyContractor]

On least thing for today.

For those arguing that Junior Doctors are paid enough already and should stop whinging.

This is what they get paid:

First year out of Medical School : Between £22,636 and £25,461 depending on what scale the Hospital they work at pays them. At best they can expect £489 per week basic pay.

This is for a nominal 56 hour week, including on call hours, night shifts etc.

That works out to £8.73 per hour. Before Tax.

They may be able to earn more by working weekend shifts that pay a premium, which could put them up to £17 or so per hour but only for 8 hours. So an extra £70 for working a weekend.

By their second year they can look forward to up to £31748 pa. £610 per week. £10.89 per hour. Before tax.

These are the TOP rates pf pay on the current pay scales.

BMA - Junior doctors pay England | British Medical Association

They also pay £420 a year to the General Medical Council to maintain their registration in order to practice. They also have to have Professional Indemnity Insurance.

Once they finish their first two years they go onto the registrar scale. This generally lasts for up to 6 years before they can qualify as a Consultant. The top rate for a senior registrar who has been a doctor for almost 10 years by this point is £47,175.

So the doctor who treats you when you wind up in hospital could be earning little more than minimum wage.

Yes, these time wasters know it even before they enter the field. It is not that they are all promised £100,000 as a starting wage.

Wonder if they have forgotten the fact that they have all signed a contract before they started? No legal ground to their claims, so they strike

[darmstadt]

They just stopped printing it.

Independent to cease as print edition - BBC News

Yeah, but there will still be an online edition, which is all I ever read, its not as if its gone

[DaveB]

Yes, these time wasters know it even before they enter the field. It is not that they are all promised £100,000 as a starting wage.

Wonder if they have forgotten the fact that they have all signed a contract before they started? No legal ground to their claims, so they strike

Yes they do, but they still do the job.

This isn't, and never was, about money. Thats just the bulltulip and spin from Hunt that you are happily swallowing.

Junior Doctors effectively work on fixed term contracts. New contracts get signed every year, as they change jobs every year. Thats why the new contracts have caused such an upheaval. Rather than a negotiated agreement, Hunt is now imposing a new contract on all Junior Doctors that will come into effect for them on their next job rotation.

It's no different to a client taking on a contractor with a contracts having one set of T&C's and then changing it 6 months at later at renewal for a worse set with a take it or leave it attitude on the assumption that you will just accept it. The Doctors aren't accepting it and many of them are prepared to walk away if it isn't resolved. This is the advise any contractor posting on here under the same circumstances would get. Accept it or push back and be prepared to walk if it doesn't work out.

The hospital management that Hunt claimed supported him have turned round and told him that's not what they wanted and many of them are preparing to negotiate directly with BMA rather than use the contract being imposed.

[FatLazyContractor]

It's no different to a client taking on a contractor with a contracts having one set of T&C's and then changing it 6 months at later at renewal for a worse set with a take it or leave it attitude on the assumption that you will just accept it. The Doctors aren't accepting it and many of them are prepared to walk away if it isn't resolved. This is the advise any contractor posting on here under the same circumstances would get. Accept it or push back and be prepared to walk if it doesn't work out.

Exactly my point. Take it or leave it.

Time to bring those Eastern European nurses junior doctors ...

[darmstadt]

Exactly my point. Take it or leave it.

Time to bring those Eastern European nurses junior doctors ...

Well you won't once the Tory immigration laws/bills get passed as they won't earn enough