Junior doctors

[DaveB]

I don't agree that an insurance model of health care is extreme. Many "civilized" countries operate such a system quite successfully. Not saying I agree with Hunt though.



This might be stating the obvious but the NHS is not in a free market. Nor should it be. Internal "market" yes, like when the departments in a big company "compete" with each other for budget.



Again, this is the functioning or malfunctioning of an an internal "market", not a free market. In a free market, those who negotiate poor deals would quickly die off.



I agree. But how long will we have to wait for cooperation? The BMA and other vested interests have effectively blocked every attempt at reform and will continue to do so. How do you get parties to agree to something which (they think) will result in the reduction of their own power and wealth, other than by force ? Would contractors agree to IR35 if it wasn't forced on them ?

Free market/ internal market. Tomato/tomato. The principle under which is was established was that competition in the market would provide the solution. It didn't.

The BMA have offered compromise all along. Their last proposal included accepting less money across the board in order to fund additional staffing to increase the number of man hours available to cover additional weekend working. Hunt turned that down and at this point it is Hunt who is blocking agreement to reform, not the BMA.

[unixman]

Free market/ internal market. Tomato/tomato. The principle under which is was established was that competition in the market would provide the solution. It didn't.

Disagree. And it isn't a trivial tomato/tomato point. The NHS internal "market" should not be confused with the actual free market under which private industry operates. Otherwise you might conclude that because the internal "market" malfunctioned, the whole idea of free enterprise and a free market is discredited - a straw man argument.

The BMA have offered compromise all along. Their last proposal included accepting less money across the board in order to fund additional staffing to increase the number of man hours available to cover additional weekend working. Hunt turned that down and at this point it is Hunt who is blocking agreement to reform, not the BMA.

Excellent. Glad to hear it. I must bow to your superior knowledge on that one. However, when I said the BMA blocks reform, I was talking about over the decades, not the current dispute.

[BlasterBates]

You can say what you like. The NHS is good value for money. If you want a decent private insurance anywhere in the world it always costs a lot of money.

You won't be able to walz into a private hospital and have your tumour removed for 50 quid.

A private health industry won't offer a fantastic service for next to nothing, private Doctors want to drive around in huge BMW's, and private insurance won't give two hoots about how much your health costs are they'll just shove the premiums up until they make a huge profit. The health insurance industry which is virtually non-existent in the UK will cost billions with thousands of accounts and lawyers all fighting over claims.

Be thankful there's an awful lot of doctors in the UK prepared to work for "peanuts" at least for part of their career.

Contractors paying no NI are saving an absolute fortune. Sure the NHS offers a sloppy service, but it is effing cheap, ...and you don't have to worry about having to pay half of your pension into a health insurance scheme because you're high risk, and if you don't like the sloppy NHS you can dig into your pocket for a reasonably inexpensive medical insurance that supplements a service that is effectively costs nothing for someone not paying NI.

[BoredBloke]

You can say what you like. The NHS is good value for money. If you want a decent private insurance anywhere in the world it always costs a lot of money.

You won't be able to walz into a private hospital and have your tumour removed for 50 quid.

A private health industry won't offer a fantastic service for next to nothing, private Doctors want to drive around in huge BMW's, and private insurance won't give two hoots about how much your health costs are they'll just shove the premiums up until they make a huge profit.

Be thankful there's an awful lot of doctors in the UK prepared to work for "peanuts" at least for part of their career.

Contractors paying no NI are saving an absolute fortune. Sure the NHS offers a sloppy service, but it is effing cheap, ...and you don't have to worry about having to pay half of your pension into a health insurance scheme because you're high risk, and if you don't like the sloppy NHS you can dig into your pocket for a reasonably inexpensive medical insurance that supplements a service that is effectively costs nothing for someone not paying NI.

The NHS costs each taxpayer £5000 a year. I'd say that's quite a bit. In 2015 its budget was £115bn

[BlasterBates]

The NHS costs each taxpayer £5000 a year. I'd say that's quite a bit. In 2015 its budget was £115bn

416 pounds per month and your family is covered, that's damn cheap ! and you pay nothing when you're benched.

I wonder how a benched contractor would survive if he had to pay medical insurance also when he earned nothing, especially with a family.

[MicrosoftBob]

416 pounds per month and your family is covered, that's damn cheap ! and you pay nothing when you're benched.

I wonder how a benched contractor would survive if he had to pay medical insurance also when he earned nothing, especially with a family.

Ask Pyscho ?

[NigelJK]

You won't be able to walz into a private hospital and have your tumour removed for 50 quid.

But it might save your life with emergency care as was the point of my post.

private Doctors want to drive around in huge BMW's, and private insurance won't give two hoots about how much your health costs are they'll just shove the premiums up until they make a huge profit

The Oncologist who was responsible for my Wifes treatment at both a Private Hospital and at Christies (on two separate occasions) drove a very nice new Bentley Continental.

[BoredBloke]

416 pounds per month and your family is covered, that's damn cheap ! and you pay nothing when you're benched.

I wonder how a benched contractor would survive if he had to pay medical insurance also when he earned nothing, especially with a family.

Or 10k per household if both work. Still seems quite expensive to me!

[VectraMan]

The NHS costs each taxpayer £5000 a year. I'd say that's quite a bit. In 2015 its budget was £115bn

In France it's around 7% docked from your wage, which is less than that for the average person. (Then you pay up to 20% of standard fees if you do use it). And more importantly is better.

NHS not really cheap or good.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I've often wondered why the Government doesn't offer tax breaks to private companies to introduce private health care for their workers; the NHS could continue to be funded by private taxation but would operate on a smaller and more manageable scale. From what I've read, about £15bn a year goes on litigation costs of one type or another - as our culture becomes more litigious, much in the same way as it has in the States, surely this will be enough to cripple either the NHS or the tax payer at some point in the near future.

No doubt I've missed something glaringly obvious