Time to privatise the NHS

[SueEllen]

Good lord Nick. Do you really believe this?

I've never subscribed to the theory that they're all out to get us and make money out of us, no matter the cost or morals. It might be true for some of them but not all, surely?

Don't let cynicism become paranoia

If you read the government's mandate for the NHS - where they sneakily pushed out a consultation and didn't advertise it - then you wouldn't blame Nick for being cynical.

Added to that is the lies the government tells about NHS workers working hours, the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which allows companies who don't win a contract to sue the commissioning group who put the contract out to tender and the lack of joined up thinking with social care and regulating the food industry.

[Elliegirl]

There is a hell of a lot wrong with the NHS and social care in this country, but I would defend the principle of the NHS in a fight to the death. I've seen the very best and the worst of it. My brother spent most of his life after the age of 14 and being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in and out of the system and died eight years ago. His life was extended because of the NHS but some of his treatment was just rubbish. My father is dying of colon cancer. He's with me because I didn't want him in a hospice. We have carers in three times a day, nurses who come in regularly and are simply brilliant, and excellent pain management. We even got a hospital bed which I thought I would have to buy myself. I seriously couldn't ask for more. I have been sending money abroad to help with the treatment of a relative with diabetes. There, you don't have the money for treatment, you die, simple as.

[SpontaneousOrder]

You only have to prove the figures wrong if you want to reject the case that the NHS is exceptionally cost-effective. I assume you can't, because you resort to throwing shade on an organisation as if that was somehow an argument.

Not very cost-effective for PC's old man.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Because even in the US they realised that privatised health care was leaving too many poor people to die than was palletable.

So, ignoring whether private would be better or not for now, let me get this straight...

You're saying that the US system is not private (of course - their federal gov't spend more per head than our nhs does, ignoring AMA etc)...

... but their expenditure is an example of private healthcare not working?

[DodgyAgent]

How much did he pay for his cataract surgery? Could he have afforded it at all under a system of private medicine?

More generally, why do you allow yourself to be duped by politicians like this? They starve the NHS of resources precisely so they can get support for privatising it. Do you think they want to privatise it because that'll be better for you, or your father, or any patient? Of course not.

You, and your father, and everybody else, are to them just things from which money can be made; and if there is no money to be made from someone, let them rot. And you fall for it, like sheep hurling themselves into the slaughterhouse.

What do mean they starve the NHS of resources?. They do not. It is people like you that think money grows on trees who comes up with all the cliche crap that you spew out. If the NHS had 100% of our income (which is what the left really believe) it would still fail so many people.
The NHS needs the rigors of the private sector (which does not necessarily mean privatising it) to make it work. If BP, UBS, HSBC can nail down their contractor suppliers to tiny margins why cant the NHS for example?
It is people like you that make the NHS so damned inefficient.

[SueEllen]

Not very cost-effective for PC's old man.

It was effective.

The other care he needed should not take place in a hospital.

Social care needed to be arranged for him. However if you have family, neighbours or friends who look in on you, you get SFA.

[d000hg]

Not very cost-effective for PC's old man.

A single data point proves nothing.

It was effective.

The other care he needed should not take place in a hospital.

Social care needed to be arranged for him. However if you have family, neighbours or friends who look in on you, you get SFA.

Actually in this case it wasn't effective based on PC's account that they 'botched it'. However while I agree with you, the hospital surely has some duty of care to check something is sorted out, not dump an old blind person practically onto the street.

[SpontaneousOrder]

A single data point proves nothing.

As a single individual, with singular concerns regarding my own wellbeing, I think that singular data points are of importance. I never intend to observe any duty to die.

Of course it's a risk assessment, and if 1 guy had a bad experience in a million then it's probably of no concern. But if that singular data point is representative of, lets say 5 percent of people's experiences, then I might conclude that "cost-effective" for the collective isn't necessarily cost-effective for me as an individual.

Actually in this case it wasn't effective based on PC's account that they 'botched it'. However while I agree with you, the hospital surely has some duty of care to check something is sorted out, not dump an old blind person practically onto the street.

One would imagine that that's something a market would be more than capable of deciding.

When I bought my new car, the salesman offered to pick me up from the train station and bring me to the show-room. Customer service. SE's line seems an odd and arbitrary one to draw.

[d000hg]

One would imagine that that's something a market would be more than capable of deciding.

The market would almost certainly be happy dumping people on the street if they can't charge them £500/night for the hospital room.

[SpontaneousOrder]

The market would almost certainly be happy dumping people on the street if they can't charge them £500/night for the hospital room.

Like PC's old man? He had no choice to decide if he wanted to pay £500.

And I've found that £500 a night hotels are happy to make me homeless for the night if I don't have £500.
Fortunately, the market recognises that there are lower price points to be targeted. So I stay in less luxurious £150 a night premier inns instead.