Time to privatise the NHS

[PurpleGorilla]

Because even in the US they realised that privatised health care was leaving too many poor people to die than was palletable. Of course a lot of their cost goes on lawyers and malpractice insurance.

We should be looking at our neighbours (sorry Kippers, but it's true). The French pay a small amount every time they see a GP or consultant, with a state run fund (deducted from everyone's pay packet) picking up the bulk of the cost. Seems to work much better for them. Here we're so stuck on the socialist paradise ideal of healthcare being free to all that we're blinded by the realities. It could do a better job by more people if there was some degree of charging, but not so much that you get bankrupted by a serious illness.

Sounds like a good idea.

As a working man, trying to see my GP takes 2-3 weeks.

On the rare occasions I am there, it is like a blue rinse social club FFS!

[DimPrawn]

On the rare occasions I am there, it is like a blue rinse social club FFS!

Mines like a 3rd World flea market.

[d000hg]

The French pay a small amount every time they see a GP or consultant, with a state run fund (deducted from everyone's pay packet) picking up the bulk of the cost.

How small? The issues I could see with this are

1)People wouldn't go to get something checked out or chat to their GP about a worry. While this puts more of a strain on GPs, it's great they are your first port of call for anything from wanting to quit smoking to diet advice to "what's this lump?"

2)To poorer people, even a small fee might seem substantial, or a barrier to prevent them going. Although perhaps some people are exempt in France?

On the other hand, this is the model we (mostly, it does get pricey for major work) have for dentistry. Although I never really understood why dentistry is different, making an annual check-up free seems sensible to me.

[d000hg]

Mines like a 3rd World flea market.

Maybe you should move somewhere nicer.

I can't remember the last time I couldn't get an appointment within a couple of days. Maybe it's because you soft southerners are always ill.

[FatLazyContractor]

Maybe you should move somewhere nicer.

I can't remember the last time I couldn't get an appointment within a couple of days. Maybe it's because you soft southerners are always ill.

We even have a smiley dedicated to the southerns ->

[NotAllThere]

I would cut out some of the treatments in the NHS like fertility treatment.

Spend the money on childhood leukaemia instead.

Fertility treatments bring in more tax payers and so has a higher ROI.

Privatisation = 100s of companies all making a slice of profit...

All cutting services to increase profit.

You forgot the population explosion due to unfettered immigration

There is no unfettered immigation. It may be higher than you like, but it isn't unfettered.

Most immigrants are low earners, earning near tax allowance thresholds and receive tax credits, plus rent rebate, council tax reductions.

They are a net drain on all public services, especially health and education.

Wake up you idiot.

The facts indicate this is not the case. http://www.cream-migration.org/files/FiscalEJ.pdf

We investigate the fiscal impact of immigration on the UK economy, with a focus on the period since
1995. Our findings indicate that, when considering the resident immigrant population in each year
from 1995 to 2011, immigrants from the European Economic Area (EEA) have made a positive fiscal
contribution, even during periods when the UK was running budget deficits, while Non-EEA
immigrants, not dissimilar to natives, have made a negative contribution. For immigrants that arrived
since 2000, contributions have been positive throughout, and particularly so for immigrants from
EEA countries. Notable is the strong positive contribution made by immigrants from countries that
joined the EU in 2004.

[Troll]

Tax Research UK – The NHS – a stunningly cost effective supplier of high quality healthcare

Any deterioration in the cost-effectiveness of the NHS since then can be readily ascribed to the aforementioned process of stripping it down for parts to be sold off to the highest bidder whoever guarantees the best job for various Tory politicians a couple of years down the line.

Tax Research UK - you only have to look at the funding sources to get a feel for its impartiality

[SpontaneousOrder]

It's undoubtedly better if you go private, but that's because you're part of a small number that go private. If everything was privatised chances are we'd all end up with the same crap service, unless you were prepared to pay extra for a "premium" service. Healthcare is like the utilities or supermarkets: they're never going to be short of customers.

I'd imagine the opposite. Currently private health is competing in a very limited market.

My dad had a swollen & red leg. He's got health problems which they are aware of that put him at risk. Doctors surgery couldn't get him an appointment for 2 weeks. Mum kicked off (she's good that that) and got him seen to at the end of the day after hours.

Turns out people frequently lose legs because of the bacterial infection he had. Few days in hospital on a drip curbed it.


With a market for less high-end private medical, I wonder if it would have simply been a case of him saying: "I'm concerned about this more than the hoards of people with sniffles & sore necks. So I'm going to spend £50 and get it checked.", and walking in that very day.

If my shameless mum hadn't kicked off he probably would have waited 2 weeks. Could have been disastrous.

[SpontaneousOrder]

How much did he pay for his cataract surgery? Could he have afforded it at all under a system of private medicine?

More generally, why do you allow yourself to be duped by politicians like this? They starve the NHS of resources precisely so they can get support for privatising it. Do you think they want to privatise it because that'll be better for you, or your father, or any patient? Of course not.

You, and your father, and everybody else, are to them just things from which money can be made; and if there is no money to be made from someone, let them rot. And you fall for it, like sheep hurling themselves into the slaughterhouse.

USA isn't a good example of private health care though, is it? Federal Government spends more per capita than the NHS does. AMA has quotas and artificially limits the number of new medical practitioners that can qualify, etc, etc. Things like ObamaCare push up prices, etc.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Fertility treatments bring in more tax payers and so has a higher ROI.

All cutting services to increase profit.

There is no unfettered immigation. It may be higher than you like, but it isn't unfettered.

The facts indicate this is not the case. http://www.cream-migration.org/files/FiscalEJ.pdf

We investigate the fiscal impact of immigration on the UK economy, with a focus on the period since
1995. Our findings indicate that, when considering the resident immigrant population in each year
from 1995 to 2011, immigrants from the European Economic Area (EEA) have made a positive fiscal
contribution, even during periods when the UK was running budget deficits, while Non-EEA
immigrants, not dissimilar to natives, have made a negative contribution. For immigrants that arrived
since 2000, contributions have been positive throughout, and particularly so for immigrants from
EEA countries. Notable is the strong positive contribution made by immigrants from countries that
joined the EU in 2004.

Does that include unfunded future liabilities? I.e. does the definition of net producer/consumer take into account retirement?