Crackdown on personal service companies could raise £400m in tax

[LucidDementia]

However I would think that a large number of Tory voters will be affected by the changes to dividend taxes.

Pretty much every one man band in the country. So the economy then.
The dividend tax changes and ER changes are/would be short-sighted lunacy. But then that's the kind of thing we've come to expect.

The fact that the majority of voters in general don't have the nous to run their own businesses doesn't make this OK even if it is a vote winner.

[d000hg]

However I would think that a large number of Tory voters will be affected by the changes to dividend taxes.

I assume you're talking in reference to investment shareholders here? How do the rules apply (well not that they're implemented yet) in that scenario? What's the allowance you get and how does it work when your shares are held in an ISA for instance?

Pretty much every one man band in the country. So the economy then.

We all get how important you delude yourself you are, but one-man band Ltd companies are not the backbone of the economy.

[MrO666]

[QUOTE=d000hg;2173001]I assume you're talking in reference to investment shareholders here?



Just in general to be honest, there will be a large number of people who receive some form of income via dividend, and who potentially may have not incurred tax on such but will now be in the net.

Everything just seems so short sighted over the past couple of years. Clearly not looking at the future and how to improve the whole economy, and just looking on how to fix a very specific issue.

I think the Chancellor has ended up with tunnel vision when it comes to the deficit, it's like nothing else matters. He's backed himself into this corner though by making promises he shouldn't have.

Remember the old Top Gun line.......Your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash

[LucidDementia]

We all get how important you delude yourself you are, but one-man band Ltd companies are not the backbone of the economy.

You are a funny one.

First of all when did I state I was a one-man-band? You no nothing about me other than a dislike of my opinions. I'm OK with that but stop making everything personal, it's lame.

Secondly - backbone of the economy? No, but they're big part of it. All the local high streets are full of them; fast food shops, mom and pop computer shops, thrift stores, cafes, sandwich vans, pubs, vape shops, newsagents, petrol stations, McDonald's, Subway, tyre places, window fitters, locksmiths. The list is pretty much endless.

One man bands are all around us and they matter. And it'll hit them all (or at least all those with Ltd companies). And the knock on effects will hit the big boys due to decreased spending power.

[SandyD]

You are a funny one.

All the local high streets are full of them; fast food shops, mom and pop computer shops, thrift stores, cafes, sandwich vans, pubs, vape shops, newsagents, petrol stations, McDonald's, Subway, tyre places, window fitters, locksmiths. The list is pretty much endless.

One man bands are all around us and they matter. And it'll hit them all (or at least all those with Ltd companies). And the knock on effects will hit the big boys due to decreased spending power.

Non of the above are one man band !!

[LucidDementia]

Non of the above are one man band !!

I'm sorry, please clarify. Which "none of the above" cannot be one man bands?

I can give you McDs and Subway franchises as they'd have to be pretty damn small; all semantics anyway as all can be and often are private Ltds, which mean they'll all get clobbered for divi tax.

I can tell you I have personal friends and acquaintances who operate one man band Ltds in: Computer Shops, Mobile Phone Shops, Glazing, Locksmith, Butty Van and Classic Car Restoration and that's without trying.

[MrO666]

I think we're going slightly off topic here.

I guess we'll need to wait until tomorrow and see what gifts Boy George has for us.

Whilst I can accept a tweaking of the rules, I think anything quite as draconian as what's been suggested would be a hammer to crack a nut and would more than likely backfire........or hopefully get reworked before any implementation.

I think it's fair to say that 1st, 2nd line, and more entry / admin type roles (in all industries) shouldn't be contracts anyway, that's clearly just an employer not wanting the FTE on the books. However when it comes to projects and other specialised roles, they should still be able to operate as before (albeit with a tweak in the rules).

HOPEFULLY this is more or less what comes out of this. I really don't have an issue in a tightening of the reigns to ensure that the PSC (whatever that is ) isn't abused, but equally business need to step up and accept that BAU roles should be employees.

That's just my opinion anyway.

[Ned]

Multiple Clients

So all this doesn't apply if you invoice multiple clients. To me this seems like a likely candidate to work around this. If you can prove to whoever has the onus for making sure contractor passes test, that you invoice other clients, then that seems like a much more clearer criteria to meet than SDC. This is provided HMRC has the sense to properly define what that means of course. I suppose the criteria could be amount of time spent working for each client within a set amount of time. Typically my clients don't want to share my time as it would be too sensitive (Chinese walls and such), but if the industry is completely separate and time requirements are realistic, it could work for me. I'd happily do some low-paid work on rent-a-coder to maintain my status.

[northernladuk]

So all this doesn't apply if you invoice multiple clients. To me this seems like the a likely candidate to work around this. If you can prove to whoever has the onus for making sure contractor passes test, that you invoice other clients, then that seems like a much more clearer criteria to meet than SDC. This is provided HMRC has the sense to properly define what that means of course. I suppose the criteria could be amount of time spent working for each client within a set amount of time. Typically my clients don't want to share my time as it would be too sensitive (Chinese walls and such), but if the industry is completely separate and time requirements are realistic, it could work for me. I'd happily do some low-paid work on rent-a-coder to maintain my status.

I think HMRC are going to have second guessed the rent-a-coder line and would look at time spent to debunk this strategy. Also remember if you are genuinely invoicing multiple clients it's currently possible to be inside IR35 on one contract and not the other as it's on a contract by contract basis. It did help with the now defunct BET's but doesn't really help in an investigation. I'm not convinced that multiple clients will be a gauranteed way out after the changes either.

[LucidDementia]

So all this doesn't apply if you invoice multiple clients.

Nothing applies yet because the Autumn Statement is tomorrow, not yesterday. Nobody knows apart from Osborne really, and I would be surprised if he really understands.