General election quandary

[ZARDOZ]

FPTP works fine when people take the long view and understand the pressure their votes apply, even when their party doesn't win.

Just look how the successes UKIP have had has resulted in a swing towards their policies by the Tories. Many people who voted for UKIP are now starting to get what they want without UKIP having any stake in the government. If UKIP do well in the upcoming election then you can be damn sure the bigger parties are going to try to absorb even more of their policies.

Firstly the two main parties will do nothing more than appear to be adopting UKIP like policies, look at all the Tory rhetoric about caping immigration when they knew they couldn't actually do anything.

Secondly UKIP will do well on a percentage share but the main two will concentrate on (and scoff about) the number of seats they have won, which will be poor by comparison.

As said previously the parties policies are decided largely by special interest groups, the public just get conned into getting (some) of what they are led to believe they want by government, lobby groups, and quango PR. Many policies can be traced right back to such lobby groups along with false support, astroturfing and leaning on the media with messages about jobs and growth designed to sway public opinion and indeed trick the public as to the origin of the policy. The system is corrupt and needs a big shake up IMHO

[eek]

Am I? I don't remember saying I was a Labour voter.
Are they? I thought the Tories were responsible for the schools the last 5 years.

The crap schools are mostly crap because a sizeable proportion of the kids who do bother to turn up are only doing so to while away the day. Teaching becomes largely a case of classroom management - multiple kids being sent out every single lesson, for instance. I find that kind of environment hard to imagine personally, pretty terrible for anyone who does want to learn.

How many crap secondary schools remain in the control of Durham County Council. The only good ones in Durham escaped to become academies as soon as it was possible to do so... At least in Darlington you can play the game to get into the best school in the area up in Durham money is the only thing that talks...

[SueEllen]

FPTP works fine when people take the long view and understand the pressure their votes apply, even when their party doesn't win.

Just look how the successes UKIP have had has resulted in a swing towards their policies by the Tories. Many people who voted for UKIP are now starting to get what they want without UKIP having any stake in the government. If UKIP do well in the upcoming election then you can be damn sure the bigger parties are going to try to absorb even more of their policies.

Your party doesn't need to win for you personally to win an election. There is no such thing as a wasted vote.

Vote for who you support. 'Tactical voting' is a cancer in the system that hides the opinions of the short-sighted fools that engage in it.

I disagree.

In other elections vote for who you want especially if the election uses a PR system e.g. Scottish Parliamentary elections, European Elections, London Assembly elections and even if its a by-election, however in the General Election vote tactically vote.

Why? The main two contenders and the parties they stand for are aware of how other elections in the area have gone so are careful to pander to what the electorate in that area want. The then elected MP also knows what issues they should rebel on and may do so as long as they don't end up in the cabinet. Remember the MP from your area wants a long term parliamentary career with all the benefits so knows not to piss off their local electorate.

[SueEllen]

As said previously the parties policies are decided largely by special interest groups, the public just get conned into getting (some) of what they are led to believe they want by government, lobby groups, and quango PR. The system is corrupt and needs a big shake up IMHO

Nothing stopping you joining and supporting a lobby group. Sometimes the government listens and sometimes they don't though generally if the lobby group gets some of the media on side then MPs do.

[vetran]

We don't live in a socialist country for a start.

We're not "doling out services that make kids incapable of working" - we're doling out services which make them capable of working, but the kids are not taking advantage of those services. They're using their free will to decide for themselves if education is worth bothering with... which sounds fairly right-wing to me.

If parents don't bring up their children properly, the cycle will continue unless someone intervenes - the state. Or, you just let them starve which would be your solution... however history shows us that we still had generational poverty pre-welfare state.

the way to intervene is to make it more pleasant to work than be on benefits. Workfare to be precise.

[d000hg]

the way to intervene is to make it more pleasant to work than be on benefits. Workfare to be precise.

Or go round poking them in the eyes, perhaps

I jest, I'm broadly in favour of workfare. Although I fear it will end up costing vast sums of public money to implement and bloat the public sector still further.

Plus if they're doing genuine work, they should just get paid for it surely? I.e instead of forcing them into workfare, force them into work!

[MicrosoftBob]

The danger for workfare is that it just creates a pool of cheap labour for companies, thus lessening their need to actually employ anyone

It would make more sense to focus on charity work, and civic projects than trying to subsidise politicians paymasters

[d000hg]

I would definitely say workfare projects should be separate.

[eek]

The danger for workfare is that it just creates a pool of cheap labour for companies, thus lessening their need to actually employ anyone

It would make more sense to focus on charity work, and civic projects than trying to subsidise politicians paymasters

My wife discovered recently that our local co-op doesn't advertise jobs anymore. They continually take people on via work programs to avoid paying them then when the program finishes offers them an unacceptable number of hours while giving the next unemployed person the chance....

[barrydidit]

My wife discovered recently that our local co-op doesn't advertise jobs anymore. They continually take people on via work programs to avoid paying them then when the program finishes offers them an unacceptable number of hours while giving the next unemployed person the chance....

They don't treat contractors much better either.