Victim blaming, or sensible advice

[SueEllen]

I am presuming nothing.

you are presuming that predators are strangers to their prey. They are not

No I'm not.

Unfortunately I've lived and live near places with serial rapists.....

Mind you does that mean that certain vehicle drivers i.e. mini-cab drivers look for people weaving around to run over? I've noticed that the people in a hurry in the night and on weekend mornings tend to be these two categories where I live. Speed limit reduction will do f*** all as they don't stick to it anyway.

[EternalOptimist]

No I'm not.

Unfortunately I've lived and live near places with serial rapists.....

you are talking nonsense now SE.

It is entirely possible to live near serial rapists and to know it

But you might also live near them an NOT know it

[SueEllen]

you are talking nonsense now SE.

It is entirely possible to live near serial rapists and to know it

But you might also live near them an NOT know it

I should have said convicted serial rapists.

[EternalOptimist]

I should have said convicted serial rapists.

oh.

well, i still think i would take massive precautions. if i was a broken legged deer or a drunken bum

[SpontaneousOrder]

That's because you and I aren't the type of people to get so drunk we are paralytic.

I've seen some people do crazy things when they are completely drunk and they have no memory of what they did the next day.

Ok... I guess so drunk you're essentially asleep is clearly rape.
Mega drunk, but up for it? Not a classy (or even decent) thing to do - but it seems wrong to call it rape.

I guess there will always be a grey area in all judgements, so if you put yourself in that grey area (both rapist and rape victim) then you're asking for it (obviously only one is a crime, but the potential victim is asking to get in trouble in the same way that if I get para on my own I fully expect to get mugged - and the potential rapist is asking to get locked up).


I suppose I had never thought of it from an absolutely smashed victim perspective. Why would you want to nail a smashed chick?! ('cause you're a sick puppy obviously)

[vetran]

that doesn't mean that drunk idiots veering into the path of rapists are to blame. A motorist hitting a drunk pedestrian has almost certainly done so without meaning to. The same can't be said of a rapist.

Then this is probably a pointless campaign then :

Remember lock it or lose it

Safety and Security... Bicycle Locks WhyCycle? - The impartial cycling advice site

oh yes if you take certain precautions then certain crime is less likely to happen.

If we research why and give constructive advice to both parties maybe we will reduce instances of rape or at least 'non consensual sex'?

or we could just muddy the waters and blame it all on the male or the driver (in the case of a pedestrian 'accident') and accuse them all of being the same.

I'll tell my daughters to value themselves, avoid getting into dangerous situations, picking the right men and staying vaguely sober unless they are with people they totally trust. To say no clearly if they don't want to and say yes clearly if they do. That way they are less likely to get in a situation where they may be raped. I don't expect all men to be princes some are right bastards, and neither should they. You are responsible for your own virtue & safety.

I'll tell any male charges to respect women and avoid taking consent for granted especially when either are drunk. To stop if their partner removes consent at any point. You can regret it for much longer than you will enjoy it.

As consent is often implied in a romantic or sexual setting it is almost certainly possible for someone to overstep the mark very easily especially if either are impaired by drink or drugs. This is most certainly something that can be improved with education and support.

It is a situation I was in when much younger, I was lucky I realised it was a step too far and I or she would regret it in the morning but the young lady involved was not exactly clear in her intentions.

If we had both been sober (we were both drunk) , stopped to discuss what we were doing (not something horny teenagers do well) or moved more slowly (the sap was rising) then the situation is less likely to have happened.

Pre meditation is a completely different matter and needs to be dealt with accordingly. As does power related rape e.g. in domestic violence.

But they are all wrapped up in the rapist banner with no differentiation. A bit like confusing forgetting to pay for a tin of beans with armed robbery.

But you say, I don't mean that! However the official definition is :

A person commits rape if they intentionally penetrate the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with their penis without consent.

So if I had gone one step further I would officially be a rapist if she woke up in the morning and said she hadn't consented. Nowadays I wouldn't be able to point out the fact she had drunkenly consented more than once both verbally & physically.

I think there is a lot we can do to reduce rape cases and it takes research and open communication not finger pointing and witch hunts.

This page seems to blur the lines nicely :

Common misconceptions about rape

but according to this

Myths & facts about rape & sexual violence

that 1 in 5 women (aged 16 - 59) has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16.

so either there are lots of rapists / perverts out there that need to be caught or all men are bastards or there are degrees that need to be sorted out and pursued differently because dropping them all in the same bucket doesn't seem to be working very well.


As to drivers
I'm all for having fewer drunk pedestrians in the road and they need to be told its their responsibility to take care of themselves and avoid risks. I'm also for locking up dangerous drivers.

[mudskipper]

The poster basically says:

"Don't drink or you might get raped"

The spiel on the campaign (to get the poster removed) says:

"It is not consistent with the NHS' own guidelines on 'Help after rape and sexual assault' in which they say 'If you have been sexually assaulted, remember that it wasn’t your fault. It doesn’t matter what you were wearing, where you were or whether you had been drinking. A sexual assault is always the fault of the perpetrator.' This is a much more helpful approach, and we ask the NHS and the Home Office to destroy this poster in all formats. "

It's not the same as 'lock your car'. Everyone locks their car.

Going out for a drink is a perfectly normal thing that most people do.

Getting blind drunk should be discouraged for both genders.

[vwdan]

I saw this quite on Buzzfeed once and it's basically my feelings on any kind of "anti-rape" campagain that targets the potential victim:

Rape culture is telling girls and women to be careful about what you wear, how you wear it, how you carry yourself, where you walk, when you walk there, with whom you walk, whom you trust, what you do, where you do it, with whom you do it, what you drink, how much you drink, whether you make eye contact, if you’re alone, if you’re with a stranger, if you’re in a group, if you’re in a group of strangers, if it’s dark, if the area is unfamiliar, if you’re carrying something, how you carry it, what kind of shoes you’re wearing in case you have to run, what kind of purse you carry, what jewelry you wear, what time it is, what street it is, what environment it is, how many people you sleep with, what kind of people you sleep with, who your friends are, to whom you give your number, who’s around when the delivery guy comes, to get an apartment where you can see who’s at the door before they can see you, to check before you open the door to the delivery guy, to own a dog or a dog-sound-making machine, to get a roommate, to take self-defense, to always be alert always pay attention always watch your back always be aware of your surroundings and never let your guard down for a moment lest you be sexually assaulted and if you are and didn’t follow all the rules it’s your fault.

[vetran]

If you remove this bit:

if you are and didn’t follow all the rules it’s your fault.

its called sensible advice.

If you remove the sexual references it becomes identical to advice on how not to get mugged / physically assaulted.

If you walked through a rough area drunk wearing a five grand Rolex then got mugged most people would suggest it was your fault.

Or if you leave your bike out unlocked or locked with a poor quality lock it will get stolen and the insurance company won't pay out.

How can it be offensive to say to girls (or boys) that if you go into a high risk area then be careful and don't get blind drunk unless you are sure you are safe?

This doesn't make the crime any less unpleasant. It just makes people realise they can actively discourage it.

falling into hysterical shouting 'its not the victim's fault' when the word Rape is used doesn't seem to be working. It lets the marginal ones get off because the sentence of Rape is so severe juries are unwilling to convict 'accidental rapists' or it understates the horror of the really bad ones.

Distinctions like accidental death, Manslaughter & Murder seem to support this for other crimes.

The conviction rates seem to support the fact we are not dealing with this properly.

Now do we need to :
1.tighten up the pursuit & punishment of premeditated & repeated rapists?
2. separate the type of offences so we can deal with each type differently and sentence accordingly? Making sure the bad ones can't slide down the scale.
3. Educate both sides to communicate more clearly ?
4. warn people to be careful ?

[Unix]

There is no excuse for rape, a woman should be free to wear/drink whatever she wants.