Agencies - ask me to agree to contract without seeing it - that old chestnut

[Scruff]

Funny how we all have different experiences...

I have worked with Hays for a number of years and on different contracts:

1. Get email confirming contract.
2. Provide VAT Registration / Company Registration Certificates / Proof of ID
3. Get contract via email
4. Go into Hays office for Physical ID and comparison to Proof of ID
5. Sign contract
6. Start work

All done and dusted within 48 hours.

[eek]

Funny how we all have different experiences...

I have worked with Hays for a number of years and on different contracts:

1. Get email confirming contract.
2. Provide VAT Registration / Company Registration Certificates / Proof of ID
3. Get contract via email
4. Go into Hays office for Physical ID and comparison to Proof of ID
5. Sign contract
6. Start work

All done and dusted within 48 hours.

You seem to miss out getting the contract checked for sanity and ir35 issues......

Do you work via an umbrella?

[psychocandy]

Funny how we all have different experiences...

I have worked with Hays for a number of years and on different contracts:

1. Get email confirming contract.
2. Provide VAT Registration / Company Registration Certificates / Proof of ID
3. Get contract via email
4. Go into Hays office for Physical ID and comparison to Proof of ID
5. Sign contract
6. Start work

All done and dusted within 48 hours.

(3) should come at same time as (1). (2) can then be done in parallel with getting contract checked over (as eek says). Only then can (5) and (6) be done.

In my case, as far as they were concerned, it was (1) and (2) and then (6).

Three days or arguing about whether I was being awkward or not and today we're just about sorted.

[psychocandy]

Jeez. They asked me for references to give to client. OK, I thought. Offer is on the table - what harm can it do.

They've emailed me now saying my last client won't give them a reference because I was a sub-contractor not an employee. And they need to get references and can I give some more.

I pointed that as a contractor its unlikely that any client HR departments will give out a reference for a contractor. Its not something they do. I've told them I can give a ref from last permie 4 years ago but don't hold out much hope there. When I left they just gave the standard 'X worked here from Y-Z' because that's their policy.

Once again little understanding that I'm not a temp employee.

[Scruff]

You seem to miss out getting the contract checked for sanity and ir35 issues......

Do you work via an umbrella?

No I don't work through an Umbrella (and, yes, I do know what to look for in contracts for the business tests - I do have them sanity checked by QDOS, FYI, but not necessarily before I start - I am not paranoid and have been doing this for 14 years).

[TheFaQQer]

Jeez. They asked me for references to give to client. OK, I thought. Offer is on the table - what harm can it do.

They've emailed me now saying my last client won't give them a reference because I was a sub-contractor not an employee. And they need to get references and can I give some more.

Give them the contact details of the agency that you were working through.

[eek]

No I don't work through an Umbrella (and, yes, I do know what to look for in contracts for the business tests - I do have them sanity checked by QDOS, FYI, but not necessarily before I start - I am not paranoid and have been doing this for 14 years).

I can save you a few quid mate. If that is how you work don't bother with the review at all, once you've started work its too little too late

[psychocandy]

I can save you a few quid mate. If that is how you work don't bother with the review at all, once you've started work its too little too late

Yeh whats the point in doing it afterwards? If you want anything changed the agency are gonna think well your in the door, we're getting money, why should we bother and say tough mate nothing changes. You're only recourse then is to leave.

Bad idea IMHO. Pointless even having it done at all afterwards apart from piece of mind for yourself. Surely the point in having it reviewed is so you can negotiate changes up fron BEFORE you start?

That's the problem though. Not having a go at the poster but when you've got contractors who do this it gives more fuel to the agents who then think those of us who do it properly are being awkward.

[Scruff]

I can save you a few quid mate. If that is how you work don't bother with the review at all, once you've started work its too little too late

I have no intention of getting into a debate with you, since my keyboard warrior status is not noble, or brave? I have many years of working practice with commercial contracts and whilst your points may be valid, they are particular to young tyros. Thanks for your offer to save me a few quid, though?

I think that perhaps after reading the posts in this thread, it is time that I devolved myself, since what that I have provided to the young people in this thread relates to working practices, specifically, my working practices which relate to my personal Hays experiences.

Clearly, you have been active in this forum for a lot longer than me, which automatically means you know better

[psychocandy]

I have no intention of getting into a debate with you, since my keyboard warrior status is not noble, or brave? I have many years of working practice with commercial contracts and whilst your points may be valid, they are particular to young tyros. Thanks for your offer to save me a few quid, though?

I think that perhaps after reading the posts in this thread, it is time that I devolved myself, since what that I have provided to the young people in this thread relates to working practices, specifically, my working practices which relate to my personal Hays experiences.

Clearly, you have been active in this forum for a lot longer than me, which automatically means you know better

Scruff - genuinely would be interested to hear your rationale I must admit. It obviously works for you.
And by the way the agencys react when you do kick off I don't think you're the only one.

So, I take it you do see the contract before start just dont get it properly reviewed before start? So what happens if you get it reviewed after start and something IR35 BAD BAD BAD appears.

Ever happened? If so, did you manage to get it changed?

Surely, if not, you'd be walking on thin IR35 ice then. Fair point about working practices but if the contract is bad then thats failure #1.

Also, surely then also operating outside IR35 when you've got a contract you know to be inside IR35 is going to cause problems if you ever get picked up on it. i.e. fines etc because you 'knew'.