Contract Not Stating Prof Working Day

[kaiser78]

I am reviewing a contract for a new role. This does not state standard prof working duration or hours to be worked daily, agent saying this has been done as an IR35 friendly factor.

I have not come across this before - a 'standard' pwd could be 8 hours or 10 hours or 12 hours for instance.
Should I request that this is included in the contract ?

[malvolio]

I am reviewing a contract for a new role. This does not state standard prof working duration or hours to be worked daily, agent saying this has been done as an IR35 friendly factor.

I have not come across this before - a 'standard' pwd could be 8 hours or 10 hours or 12 hours for instance.
Should I request that this is included in the contract ?

Ermm...

A Professional Working Day is where if you do any productive work for the client in any 24 hour period they get charged a set fee: the trick is to get your work done in whatever you consider to be a sensible time but if you go over that, that's your problem. On the other hand, I've charged a day for four hours' work before now.

If you define hours, it's no longer a Professional Working Day, it's an hourly rate contract with no overtime agreement...

It is, however, nothing to do with IR35 directly, unless they insist you work a set number of hours a day, which they can't if the working day is not defined.

[kaiser78]

So in a previous role the contract stated 'contracted hours are 9-5.30 or similar', so I know how the 'standard day' expected is 8.5hrs per day. Isn't it better to have something same or similar included, so that the expectation isn't then say 10 days per day ?

[kevpuk]

My current contract states Normal Working Day.....and then goes on to say this is calculated as 1-4hrs = 0.5 rate, 5+hrs = full rate
According to the permies here, they are expected to do a 7.25hr day.....I tend to do between 7 & 8hrs most days, but bu%^er off early on Friday (yayy, that's today!)

[psychocandy]

So in a previous role the contract stated 'contracted hours are 9-5.30 or similar', so I know how the 'standard day' expected is 8.5hrs per day. Isn't it better to have something same or similar included, so that the expectation isn't then say 10 days per day ?

I think this one has been done to death. Yes thats the problem - some clients will take the piss or try to.

I think general agreement is work what you see as fit.

[malvolio]

So in a previous role the contract stated 'contracted hours are 9-5.30 or similar', so I know how the 'standard day' expected is 8.5hrs per day. Isn't it better to have something same or similar included, so that the expectation isn't then say 10 days per day ?

That's 7.5 hours - permies get lunch. But who cares what permies do? You're there to deliver stuff, not occupy a chair for a set period.

[kingcook]

My current contract just says "day". No mention of times, hours, or PWD.

As a bum-in-seat contractor who gets paid a day rate, I stick to 7.5 hours per day on average.

If I were on a fixed price contract, it would be a different matter.

[expat]

I think this one has been done to death. Yes thats the problem - some clients will take the piss or try to.

I think general agreement is work what you see as fit.

Indeed. Why should an undefined "professional working day" be whatever the client or the agency decides they want at the time? You are the professional, it's your working day, it is you who decide. And take the consequences, which may or may not include termination of the business arrangement, which may or may not be a bad thing. Often it is a good thing.

[BlasterBates]

Lets face it a professional working day isn't there so you can do less hours than normal, it's the other way round, companies use a "professional working day" as a way to get their employees to work long hours.

The idea is they pile the work on and you can't go home simply because you've been there 8 hours. You stay until you have completed your work.

As others have said it might be more of a benign "normal working day" where they only expect a 40 hour week with longer hours some days to get the work done.

Personally as a contractor I wouldn't do much more than 8 hour days on average.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

My contracts don't specify work hours at all, because generally it's not my clients concern. I do always work direct though and mostly remotely.

As far as billing goes, I use my own judgement. I define a day as about 8 hours. If I feel like I've delivered a days worth of value to the client, even if it's only 6-7 hours, I will bill a full day. Conversely, if I feel like I've only done half a days work, maybe because I needed some time for other work, or couldn't be available all day, then I will charge half a day. Never had any complaints and clients are always welcome to a time tracking report if they want one.