Hays contract: PSCToASR_02-12

[kingcook]

"Agreed annual leave"

Yeah, I'd run it by one of your free QDOS reviews if you have any, as it depends on the contract in its entirety, but there are issues there.

Yep

I've just spotted another clause that says Hays are entitled to audit my company without notice (audit what exactly I do not know).

Alarm bells ringing.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

How representative of the contract will your working practices be? If you have complete autonomy then the wording of the contract is not necessarily going to put you inside IR35

[eek]

How representative of the contract will your working practices be? If you have complete autonomy then the wording of the contract is not necessarily going to put you inside IR35

How do you really know what the working practices are until its too late?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

How do you really know what the working practices are until its too late?

You'd know what job you were taken on to do and how realistic it would be for you to work autonomously surely? If you're taken on to work alongside permies doing the same job they're doing then it doesn't matter what it says in the contract you'll be inside - if you have been brought in as a specialist to work on a project, chances are you'll be outside. I know it's not that cut and dried but I would have thought you'd have some idea before you start

[PEEL]

I had something similar to 3.5 in my current contract. Someone at QDOS advised to change the word 'approval' to 'agreement' and gave an explanation of why. It didn't seem to mean much at the time.

For 6.2, Mutual Consent for time not working for the client is garbage. That sort of stuff should be self-governed, in that if you take a 3 week break you just get binned.

3.2, ask them to define reasonable as opposed to using a word that could be argued to mean anything.

Hayes seem like a load of BS based on stuff I have read here and elsewhere.

[kingcook]

How representative of the contract will your working practices be? If you have complete autonomy then the wording of the contract is not necessarily going to put you inside IR35

It's working as part of a team (with permies and other contractors) in an agile development environment.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

It's working as part of a team (with permies and other contractors) in an agile development environment.

If that's the case then I would have thought there would have do be a level of supervision, direction and control; they may accept a substitution but realistically would they be provided by the agency? If that's the reality of the situation then it's unlikely you would fall outside IR35 and therefore fighting for changes in the contract just to make it look that way seems a bit pointless.

[kingcook]

If that's the case then I would have thought there would have do be a level of supervision, direction and control; they may accept a substitution but realistically would they be provided by the agency? If that's the reality of the situation then it's unlikely you would fall outside IR35 and therefore fighting for changes in the contract just to make it look that way seems a bit pointless.

Agile development could be seen as D&C, so i'd have to be careful.

See: http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...developer.html

As for substitute, that would be provided by me (but see clause 3.5 in first post).

Agent has already said that they don't alter contracts, but I wonder if they would if/when the client wants me? Or am I just wasting my time and money by dragging my ass half way across the country for a F2F interview then paying for a contract review?

[bobspud]

Agent has already said that they don't alter contracts, but I wonder if they would if/when the client wants me? Or am I just wasting my time and money by dragging my ass half way across the country for a F2F interview then paying for a contract review?

Yes you are wasting your time. They have a market that they are aiming at. Your understanding of IR35 puts you above that market and so you need to move on. Its worth dropping a line to the end client though and telling them why you won't consider working with them.

[malvolio]

I had something similar to 3.5 in my current contract. Someone at QDOS advised to change the word 'approval' to 'agreement' and gave an explanation of why. It didn't seem to mean much at the time.

There is a lot of difference. One implies Direction, one doesn't.

For 6.2, Mutual Consent for time not working for the client is garbage. That sort of stuff should be self-governed, in that if you take a 3 week break you just get binned.

Nonsense. You negotiate (hence "mutual consent") or send in a sub. Or you do the job you're paid to do without a break.

3.2, ask them to define reasonable as opposed to using a word that could be argued to mean anything.

"Reasonableness" is a well understood legal concept and means exactly what is says; basically how would a neutral observer look at the situation.

Hayes seem like a load of BS based on stuff I have read here and elsewhere.

Hays (sic) are a big corporate lump who are only interested in making money. Clients are cash cows, Contractors are a commodity, contracts are intended to deflect all commercial risk from Hays to anyone else in range. They are not alone...