IR35 direction/control for a software developer

[d000hg]

I was thinking about this in my other thread but it seemed worthy of its own discussion...

For IR35 we want to avoid direction and control - we choose what we do, when and how we do it. However as a software developer you are typically required to work on specific tasks (issued through a bug-tracker most often). Being assigned tasks and doing them in roughly the order the client wants is business as usual for a software developer - picking the tasks you want to work on is not most helpful to your client.

So - does this imply an element of control or does it come under a common sense heading, that you need to provide a professional service doing what the client needs doing?

[northernladuk]

I don't see this is D&C, I see this as part for the role. They are the developing software, this has a set of standard processes that need carrying out in some form of order whatever client they have. On top of this other ad-hoc work needs doing to allow them to continue with the work they do so that needs doing.

This is part of them being an SME IMO. A builder doesn't claim that sweeping up after a days work is direction and control. It isn't a building task but one that is done as a builder.

I don't think D&C at a micro level is a problem as long as it is part of the greater work you do. Someone has to tell you what order to do it in to fit the plan. D&C to me becomes a problem when you start creaping away from the scope of work contracted.

[TestMangler]

I always thought software developers were automatically IR35 caught.

They're just glorified typists after all......

[pmeswani]

I always thought software developers were automatically IR35 caught.

They're just glorified typists after all......

I'm a trained typist... where do I sign up?

[d000hg]

I don't see this is D&C, I see this as part for the role. They are the developing software, this has a set of standard processes that need carrying out in some form of order whatever client they have. On top of this other ad-hoc work needs doing to allow them to continue with the work they do so that needs doing.

The thing is though, an employed and contracted developer might both work in the same way, assigned bugs/tickets and going through the same process to make changes and get them tested/documented/signed off. As you say, it's a requirement of that particular role, but it still means your day-to-day activities might look very similar to the permies.

All part of the joke of IR35?

[malvolio]

If everyone has to do things a given way, then it doesn't distinguish between permie and contactor so it's neutral as far as IR35 is concerned. You're actually being asked to do something, but not given hard and fast rules about how you get to the end result. So where's the D&C anyway?

[rd409]

I was thinking about this in my other thread but it seemed worthy of its own discussion...

For IR35 we want to avoid direction and control - we choose what we do, when and how we do it. However as a software developer you are typically required to work on specific tasks (issued through a bug-tracker most often). Being assigned tasks and doing them in roughly the order the client wants is business as usual for a software developer - picking the tasks you want to work on is not most helpful to your client.

So - does this imply an element of control or does it come under a common sense heading, that you need to provide a professional service doing what the client needs doing?

The D&C can be determined by whether you ask for work from home or inform the client that you would be working from home. Whether you inform your client that you would not be available for a particular time period, or you ask for time off. Whether you can walk in and out of work according to what you believe is good for you business, or you ask for permission for leaving early. Whether you can use your own set of tools to perform a task if you find it necessary, or you will have to only work with the provided set of tools.

Although there are only subtle and minute difference between the way you approach the day to day working practices, but in essence, if you are given the task, and you can perform it completely on your own terms without anyone questioning where, when and how you do it; then you can say you are an independent entity. There are different ways the task can be assigned, so this is out of scope if you make sure the main concept of D&C is maintained.

HTH.
Dave.

[pmeswani]

The D&C can be determined by whether you ask for work from home or inform the client that you would be working from home. Whether you inform your client that you would not be available for a particular time period, or you ask for time off. Whether you can walk in and out of work according to what you believe is good for you business, or you ask for permission for leaving early. Whether you can use your own set of tools to perform a task if you find it necessary, or you will have to only work with the provided set of tools.

Although there are only subtle and minute difference between the way you approach the day to day working practices, but in essence, if you are given the task, and you can perform it completely on your own terms without anyone questioning where, when and how you do it; then you can say you are an independent entity. There are different ways the task can be assigned, so this is out of scope if you make sure the main concept of D&C is maintained.

HTH.
Dave.

If you are in the middle of a project delivery, you can't just say "Oh, by the way, I won't be in for 2 weeks.". you are giving your client ammo to bin you for someone else who is more readily available. I don't think it is unreasonable for the client to have some say on when you are available and whether you can or can't work from home

[rd409]

If you are in the middle of a project delivery, you can't just say "Oh, by the way, I won't be in for 2 weeks.". you are giving your client ammo to bin you for someone else who is more readily available. I don't think it is unreasonable for the client to have some say on when you are available and whether you can or can't work from home

Well for comparison, the statements would be like

"I am not available for 2 days next week. Having seen the project schedule, I believe it's okay. Do let me know if something urgent crops up." as compared to "Hi, Is it okay to have a couple of days off next week?"

"I am working from home tomorrow. I can be reached on phone, email or Skype. Please let me know if I am required on premises for an urgent meeting, and I will be available." as compared to "Hi, is it okay if I work from home tomorrow, and if there are no scheduled meeting?"

The first statement is more authoritative, and asserts that you are in control of your services. Of course, you have business to do, and that would mean that you will have to suit your arrangements as per the client requirements, but then you make sure that your arrangements are not a hinderence for project or other client requirement.

By the way, these statements are just a general idea of how the D&C can be determined in broad sense. If you don't care about the client preferences, then it is professional suicide, imho.

HTH.
Dave.

[prozak]

Well for comparison, the statements would be like

"I am not available for 2 days next week. Having seen the project schedule, I believe it's okay. Do let me know if something urgent crops up." as compared to "Hi, Is it okay to have a couple of days off next week?"

"I am working from home tomorrow. I can be reached on phone, email or Skype. Please let me know if I am required on premises for an urgent meeting, and I will be available." as compared to "Hi, is it okay if I work from home tomorrow, and if there are no scheduled meeting?"

The first statement is more authoritative, and asserts that you are in control of your services. Of course, you have business to do, and that would mean that you will have to suit your arrangements as per the client requirements, but then you make sure that your arrangements are not a hinderence for project or other client requirement.

By the way, these statements are just a general idea of how the D&C can be determined in broad sense. If you don't care about the client preferences, then it is professional suicide, imho.

HTH.
Dave.

Agree.

I've never asked for holidays.

I've always just politely informed them of when I am taking them.

This shouldn't impact your role because you should know understand the project you are working on and determine when an appropriate time might be.