Working weekends on TOIL basis

[Fred Bloggs]

I thought it had changed so that in the event of being found to be under IR35 ( ha! ), both contractor and client were on the hook?

Not as far as I am aware, but I'm certainly open to persuasion if you have a reliable source.

[kingcook]

Not really since AFAIK the IR35 liability is solely the contractor's head ache, not the the client co's. As an aside, I would love to see someone who is being pursued by HMRC under IR35 to have the means and the balls to concurrently sue the client co for employment rights!

I just found this:
HM Revenue & Customs:IR35 - Intermediaries Legislation (IR35) - Working through an intermediary, such as a service company - Consequences/responsibilities for: Worker(s), Intermediary, Client, Composite/Managed Service, Companies, Agencies and Scheme

Quote, "Where the IR35 legislation applies and the worker provides services to the Client there is no obligation on the client to account for the worker’s tax and NICs"

What a load of bulltulip.

[psychocandy]

I think this comes down to how much you trust that they will let you have the time 'off' in the future. It sounds to me like they're doing the normal thing they do with permies - promise TOIL but never actually let people have as much time as they're owed.

If you are in a new contract and don't trust the company then don't do it unless you are willing to never get paid for the extra work you are doing. If that is an acceptable risk to you in order to get your contract renewed then go for it. Otherwise tell them that you'll happily do the work but that you will invoice for it and if that isn't acceptable then don't do the work.

Yeh. I do trust them but I think they're thinking more like the normal permie thing.

I just dont want to get into the whole bill for a day but actually be there crap because its gonna get complicated.

[kingcook]

Well... it's your business. You decide what you want to do.

I would just politely tell them that i'm not prepared to falsify invoices.

[perplexed]

Well... it's your business. You decide what you want to do.

I would just politely tell them that i'm not prepared to falsify invoices.

^^^^^

This for the win.

[contractoralan]

Yeh. I do trust them but I think they're thinking more like the normal permie thing.

I just dont want to get into the whole bill for a day but actually be there crap because its gonna get complicated.

If you find it difficult say No yourself, tell them that your advisor (accountant/lawyer etc) has suggested against this or your instance company have warned that you will loose cover if you do this TOIL thing!

If you don't mind working weekend and the client has a fixed budget only[ for n days], then you can agree with the client that you will be working for a max of n days during the contract period. So, you invoice for the days worked, but the client will not exceed the budget. If you get an extension, then you have a few nice days off. If you don't, then you can start your next contract early.

The 22 days only per month is their problem and the manager has to sort that out and should not expect you to bend back and accomodate him. I wouldn't mind if it is one off, but agreeing to do on a regular basis is plan unacceptable.

If there are other contractors and they agree, then you may be viewed as not flexible. But you should be standing your ground and not be doing something that is not right!

[psychocandy]

If you find it difficult say No yourself, tell them that your advisor (accountant/lawyer etc) has suggested against this or your instance company have warned that you will loose cover if you do this TOIL thing!

If you don't mind working weekend and the client has a fixed budget only[ for n days], then you can agree with the client that you will be working for a max of n days during the contract period. So, you invoice for the days worked, but the client will not exceed the budget. If you get an extension, then you have a few nice days off. If you don't, then you can start your next contract early.

The 22 days only per month is their problem and the manager has to sort that out and should not expect you to bend back and accomodate him. I wouldn't mind if it is one off, but agreeing to do on a regular basis is plan unacceptable.

If there are other contractors and they agree, then you may be viewed as not flexible. But you should be standing your ground and not be doing something that is not right!

Herein lies a problem. all the other contractors have agreed to it - albeit they aint happy. So if I say no I look like an unflexible git.

[kingcook]

Herein lies a problem. all the other contractors have agreed to it - albeit they aint happy. So if I say no I look like an unflexible git.

It's nothing to do with flexibility though.

[eek]

It's nothing to do with flexibility though.

+1. The fact that the other contractors are idiots doesn't mean you have to be.

[Wanderer]

Just thinking... Rectifying defects in your workmanship in your own time is a pointer to being outside IR35, isn't it....