Working weekends on TOIL basis

[eek]

Yeh. But thats not what they want. That would be fine and uncomplicated.

They want full work during the week (i.e. no half days etc) but then weekends as well with the promise to let me have this as TOIL sometime in the future when its not so busy.

And they're being a but funny when I asked them if it was ok to be off for two weeks in two months time. So I can see me getting stuck with loads of TOIL which makes things difficult.

You are starting to sound like IR35 fodder so be careful here.

What you need to make clear is that all time is chargeable. If they can't afford it that is their issue not yours but to me it says start contract hunting. The fact that they will burn through 13 weeks money in 10 weeks is not a concern of yours.

The fact that they want you to work but don't want to pay for it immediately is as they will probably can you on renewal and how would you recover the time then.

[kingcook]

But surely by doing so, he'll not get paid? Client not ofering work certain days = no payment for those days. Using that to frig around payments for days worked not invoiced, eh, a bit too creative for my liking. I don't want to be dancing around if Hector come calling.

He won't get paid -- that is correct. This is a big plus (IMHO) for his IR35 status.

He'll be getting paid for those extra days he'll be working at the weekend, so nothing is lost.

Not sure what you mean about it being creative? There's nothing creative about it, it keeps it simple.

[psychocandy]

You are starting to sound like IR35 fodder so be careful here.

What you need to make clear is that all time is chargeable. If they can't afford it that is their issue not yours but to me it says start contract hunting. The fact that they will burn through 13 weeks money in 10 weeks is not a concern of yours.

The fact that they want you to work but don't want to pay for it immediately is as they will probably can you on renewal and how would you recover the time then.

Yeh. Think manager in question is a bit naive and trying to squeeze as much as he can out of the team.

Way it works here is timesheet goes to agency, then they get it approved (i.e. I dont need to get anyone to sign it) and it gets paid. Spoke to them and as long as total days for month doesnt exceed the 'normal' (i.e. 21,22,23 or whatever the total of mon-fri is) then it'll get paid.

So suits me for August since Ive got a Friday I'm away and then theres a bank holiday. Gives me scope to work two saturdays and catch up here....

September could be different. :-( Like someone posted dont want to do the book, this claim this, take this sort of fiddling around.

Of course, renewal is due and there's a thin line between being an unflexible awkward sod and not being taken advantage of.

[eek]

He won't get paid -- that is correct. This is a big plus (IMHO) for his IR35 status.

He'll be getting paid for those extra days he'll be working at the weekend, so nothing is lost.

Not sure what you mean about it being creative? There's nothing creative about it, it keeps it simple.

There is a risk in doing this and its not one I would take. The risk is you aren't renewed for the three months of work they want you to hide the time in.

[kingcook]

I posted something like this on another thread (can't remember which one OTOH), but remind the client of problems they might have WRT IR35. i.e. future investigations could land them in the tulip for employers NI, holiday pay, + more. It works both ways.

[psychocandy]

There is a risk in doing this and its not one I would take. The risk is you aren't renewed for the three months of work they want you to hide the time in.

Yeh. And I dont like the idea of hiding the time by doing things like invoicing for days I aint been there because they owe me for a day. Too much hassle and too much can go wrong.

Would not be happy to end up leaving and having 5 days owed. No chance of getting it.

[psychocandy]

I posted something like this on another thread (can't remember which one OTOH), but remind the client of problems they might have WRT IR35. i.e. future investigations could land them in the tulip for employers NI, holiday pay, + more. It works both ways.

This is true.....

[lje]

I think this comes down to how much you trust that they will let you have the time 'off' in the future. It sounds to me like they're doing the normal thing they do with permies - promise TOIL but never actually let people have as much time as they're owed.

If you are in a new contract and don't trust the company then don't do it unless you are willing to never get paid for the extra work you are doing. If that is an acceptable risk to you in order to get your contract renewed then go for it. Otherwise tell them that you'll happily do the work but that you will invoice for it and if that isn't acceptable then don't do the work.

[Fred Bloggs]

This is true.....

Not really since AFAIK the IR35 liability is solely the contractor's head ache, not the the client co's. As an aside, I would love to see someone who is being pursued by HMRC under IR35 to have the means and the balls to concurrently sue the client co for employment rights!

[perplexed]

Not really since AFAIK the IR35 liability is solely the contractor's head ache, not the the client co's. As an aside, I would love to see someone who is being pursued by HMRC under IR35 to have the means and the balls to concurrently sue the client co for employment rights!

I thought it had changed so that in the event of being found to be under IR35 ( ha! ), both contractor and client were on the hook?