Working weekends on TOIL basis

[JamJarST]

WWS x 2. No way would I bank up work. Remember all those moaning permies who never get to TOIL as they're too busy.

Contractor work you pay as you go.

X 3, you need to bill the time you worked not fake time.

[psychocandy]

If you work the days and they offer them as TOIL but then suddenly terminate your contract then you're left high and dry with very little comeback. Remember that you're running a business, not a charity. If you work a day then you bill a day.

So there's no money in the budget to pay you? Well lets imagine that you're engaged on a 12 week contract at 5 days a week so that's 60 days work.

How about you work those Saturdays (6 days a week) over 4 weeks. Rather than take TOIL, bill them for the days but have a written agreement that you will not be offered or accept work for 5 days during a given week of the contracted period (eg, when you want time off). Overall, the total number of days worked will still be 60, the budget is unaffected and you are properly invoicing for days worked. No problem provided the client isn't trying to get something for nothing...

Good point.... didnt think of that...

[Hex]

If you work weekends you definitely need to bill for them and not have some manager promising to let you have time in lieu later. He'll conventiently forget or he'll leave and be replaced or you'll leave or be got rid of - it's just storing up problems for the future.

If they want you to work weekends you have to invoice for the days worked as normal. If they want an agreement where you do some 4 days weeks later on so their budget isn't exceeded then fine - then you have the power and it's in your hands to control.

Bill for the days you work - anything else is dangerous and too reliant on someone else. It is also much more what a permie (not a contractor) would do.

[psychocandy]

If you work weekends you definitely need to bill for them and not have some manager promising to let you have time in lieu later. He'll conventiently forget or he'll leave and be replaced or you'll leave or be got rid of - it's just storing up problems for the future.

If they want you to work weekends you have to invoice for the days worked as normal. If they want an agreement where you do some 4 days weeks later on so their budget isn't exceeded then fine - then you have the power and it's in your hands to control.

Bill for the days you work - anything else is dangerous and too reliant on someone else. It is also much more what a permie (not a contractor) would do.

Yeh. Agency have told me not to do this. Must admit I aint keen but client is really pushing this now.

What they want is for us to work the extra invoice as normal (i.e. mon-fri) then take the time off when it suits them in the future. Bad idea methinks.

To be honest though, I'm considering offering a few hours of my time at the weekend for free anyway or am I being stupid doing that?

[craig1]

Yeh. Agency have told me not to do this. Must admit I aint keen but client is really pushing this now.

What they want is for us to work the extra invoice as normal (i.e. mon-fri) then take the time off when it suits them in the future. Bad idea methinks.

To be honest though, I'm considering offering a few hours of my time at the weekend for free anyway or am I being stupid doing that?

If you trust the client then time off in lieu is a good way of working that can simplify your invoicing. Start small, work half a day on a weekend then tell them you're taking that half day during the early part of the following week, if they grumble then refuse to do more, if they don't bat an eyelid when you go home at 1pm (or come in at 1pm) then it should be fine.

[psychocandy]

If you trust the client then time off in lieu is a good way of working that can simplify your invoicing. Start small, work half a day on a weekend then tell them you're taking that half day during the early part of the following week, if they grumble then refuse to do more, if they don't bat an eyelid when you go home at 1pm (or come in at 1pm) then it should be fine.

Yeh. But thats not what they want. That would be fine and uncomplicated.

They want full work during the week (i.e. no half days etc) but then weekends as well with the promise to let me have this as TOIL sometime in the future when its not so busy.

And they're being a but funny when I asked them if it was ok to be off for two weeks in two months time. So I can see me getting stuck with loads of TOIL which makes things difficult.

[perplexed]

For me it would be a complete and utter no-no.

If the client are asking you to structure your working week then imo that's certainly against the IR35 "working practises" issue as they are demonstrating control, surely?

Ok, it's hardly difficult to avoid IR35 issues, but why increase your liability - and your duty is to your company, not the client.

It sounds like the end client either don't necessarily have a clue about managing contractors or are taking the p.

[kingcook]

They want full work during the week (i.e. no half days etc) but then weekends as well with the promise to let me have this as TOIL sometime in the future when its not so busy.

Can't you remind them of their right to not supply you with work on certain days in the future?

[Fred Bloggs]

From what you're saying here, I think the client co is asking just a bit too much. Myself, I would agree to work the weekend hours only if I invoiced for them. What they're asking for is a bit too much like D&C for my liking and will do an IR35 defence serious damage, IMO.

[perplexed]

Can't you remind them of their right to not supply you with work on certain days in the future?

He could.

But surely by doing so, he'll not get paid? Client not ofering work certain days = no payment for those days. Using that to frig around payments for days worked not invoiced, eh, a bit too creative for my liking. I don't want to be dancing around if Hector come calling.

I want things nice, plain, simple, easy.