Reply to: Working weekends on TOIL basis

[psychocandy]

That's a crap defence and you know it.

Virtually every poster on your long thread has told you not to do it and given you reasons for it. How many people do you need to tell you that something isn't a good idea?

It's a bit like your VAT thread where you were told 3 times to contact the VAT helpline but only took notice the 2nd time I told you. Incidentally the advice I told you I received from the VAT people myself.

Right. And where have I said I'm not going to take the advice?

With VAT, yes I did contact them. Completely useless they were as well. Didnt have a clue what they were on about - I quoted a webpage on the HMRC website at them and the guy said he hadnt seen that one....

[SueEllen]

and you're forced to read the thread because? If you aint interested dont read it - simple.

That's a crap defence and you know it.

Virtually every poster on your long thread has told you not to do it and given you reasons for it. How many people do you need to tell you that something isn't a good idea?

It's a bit like your VAT thread where you were told 3 times to contact the VAT helpline but only took notice the 2nd time I told you. Incidentally the advice I told you I received from the VAT people myself.

[psychocandy]

and giving us a blow by blow account of every conversation with the client mistakenly believing we care.

and you're forced to read the thread because? If you aint interested dont read it - simple.

[northernladuk]

Then why is it even still being discussed. You asked and were given advice but you seem to be arguing against that advice.

and giving us a blow by blow account of every conversation with the client mistakenly believing we care.

[JamJarST]

No just discussing it and asking for opinions. No harm in that. I fail to see a point in having a forum otherwise.

Or am I missing the point? Does this forum just exist for seasoned contractors to take out a bit of frustration and flame others?

Then why is it even still being discussed. You asked and were given advice but you seem to be arguing against that advice.

[psychocandy]

The problem is I think he has made a decision and is just waiting for one of us to validate it.

No just discussing it and asking for opinions. No harm in that. I fail to see a point in having a forum otherwise.

Or am I missing the point? Does this forum just exist for seasoned contractors to take out a bit of frustration and flame others?

[psychocandy]

So the manager who is promising you TOIL is leaving in 4 weeks? And you think that's good news?! This is the strongest reason I've heard yet for politely refusing.

LOL. Yeh. Although to be fair it has been agreed with his manager too whos not leaving. Still not keen to do though.

Saying that though, they've ok my time away in september/october now so theres some time to fill in for both these months. Could be advantageous for me. Instead of losing a weeks work in both september and october I can just work and bill for a couple of Saturdays now instead.

[JamJarST]

TPD of Business/Contracts!!

For heaven's sake, the original poster should make a decision!

The problem is I think he has made a decision and is just waiting for one of us to validate it.

[contractoralan]

This is really turning out to be like an episode of Coronation Street

^^ WNLUKS... JFDI!!!

TPD of Business/Contracts!!

For heaven's sake, the original poster should make a decision!

[kingcook]

This is really turning out to be like an episode of Coronation Street

^^ WNLUKS... JFDI!!!

[lje]

Saying that he is leaving the company in 4 weeks. Excellent news. If he plays up and says no way, might just wait until he leaves and then tell his replacement (if any) that I aint going to be there those weeks..... Pity my renewal is due one week before he leaves though otherwise I'd just negotiate it in that.

So the manager who is promising you TOIL is leaving in 4 weeks? And you think that's good news?! This is the strongest reason I've heard yet for politely refusing.

[psychocandy]

I haven't bothered reading this for a couple of pages but I find it hard to believe an issue about taking time off can take 6 pages of discussion to sort out.

Again I haven't read it but do you think you have got lost in the details here and need to go back to simple stuff and go deal with it instead of discussing every possible in and out? You could be here forever when all it needs is a bit of JFDI?

SMP ;-)

[JamJarST]

I haven't bothered reading this for a couple of pages but I find it hard to believe an issue about taking time off can take 6 pages of discussion to sort out.

Again I haven't read it but do you think you have got lost in the details here and need to go back to simple stuff and go deal with it instead of discussing every possible in and out? You could be here forever when all it needs is a bit of JFDI?

You should read it, it could be published as a case study of what not to do as a contractor with regards to TOIL and time off

[northernladuk]

I haven't bothered reading this for a couple of pages but I find it hard to believe an issue about taking time off can take 6 pages of discussion to sort out.

Again I haven't read it but do you think you have got lost in the details here and need to go back to simple stuff and go deal with it instead of discussing every possible in and out? You could be here forever when all it needs is a bit of JFDI?

[psychocandy]

Negotiation time. There are no absolute positions.

If you're planning on time off to recharge then it's in their interests to let you do so. If they want you to work on through planned holidays then a rate rise is definitely on the table. If they're not in the position to negotiate or compromise on anything in return for you meeting their change of scope/duration then it's entirely up to you if you buckle!

For example, I'm off one day next week as I never work on my birthday. The client asked me if I could come in anyway, I quoted him 5 times daily rate for that day as that's what it would take for me to compromise, he declined and I'm taking my time off. If he'd agreed to that 5x rate I'd have treated it as an extra birthday present but I'd rather have the day off.

Most client managers have no clue how to manage contractors and default to treating them like disposable permies. It's up to contractors to show how we add more value than permies but also that we're independent non-employees.

Yep. Spot on about the disposable permies bit.

Thing is I admitted to the guy that even though the Mrs had booked time off work for those weeks the holiday wasnt booked as such. Therefore, if it was a problem then I'd try and re-arrange for alternative weeks in a two month window. So me being helpful rather than telling him tough its been booked for months is causing me grief now....

Hes dragging it out I reckon because he doesnt want me to have any time off. He keeps badgering about this weekend TOIL thing but I've been non-commital so far. Think he knows that if he tells me no way then I aint going to play ball with the weekend idea. Taking the piss or what...

Saying that he is leaving the company in 4 weeks. Excellent news. If he plays up and says no way, might just wait until he leaves and then tell his replacement (if any) that I aint going to be there those weeks..... Pity my renewal is due one week before he leaves though otherwise I'd just negotiate it in that.