Working weekends on TOIL basis

[northernladuk]

You could of course throw an extra day in for free to catch up after all the time spent posting here

[psychocandy]

You 'think'?? Maybe a good to find out so you 'know'!

Well you can't intend to work every day for the period as we have a bank holiday coming up on the 29th so you have at least one day covered. Another two Saturdays after that and you will be more than 1/3 through your contact and should by then have an idea if there is going to be time for him to honour them without exposing yourself to too much risk.

Your time off is the best bet though but would ask does your client know you intend to take 2 weeks off yet?? If he is bothered you need to catch up and you haven't told him you could be in for a spot of bother!

And with my pedant hat on.. Drop the phrase TOIL. Again this is permie speak. You are not getting time off as you are still billing the day. You could phrase it as flexible working arrangements as your contract only states hours not Mon-Fri (I hope). There is an IR35 issue here if permies get TOIL and you are following their process and wording it the same, albeit a small one and easy to work around.

I'm surmising thats how the client is thinking budget-wise. No extra money to pay over and above the contract.

Checking my contract - 22 days a month at x amount per day. No mention of which days.

So if I happen to work on a Saturday instead of a Friday in the same month no issue I guess as long as I dont exceed 22 days. There's one day for August then like you said.

I think manager has in mind some of us putting in a few extra days over the next few weeks (i.e. so it goes over 22 days). however, we cant bill the extra just have them as accrued.

But if he wants me to work 5 Saturdays in August and then bill for those 5 missing days in September (i.e. put me down as there when I'm not there) then that suits me fine.

Yeh. Agreed about the TOIL thing. Gotta be careful with that one because hes put this request in same wording to permies and contractors.

If its a sort of flexible working agreement thing then it'd suit me but I guess there's gotta be some sort of flexibilty in how its recorded (for instance, billing for day when I'm not there because they owe me).

[psychocandy]

You could of course throw an extra day in for free to catch up after all the time spent posting here

LOL. Maybe. Is that what you do?

[psychocandy]

You 'think'?? Maybe a good to find out so you 'know'!

Well you can't intend to work every day for the period as we have a bank holiday coming up on the 29th so you have at least one day covered. Another two Saturdays after that and you will be more than 1/3 through your contact and should by then have an idea if there is going to be time for him to honour them without exposing yourself to too much risk.

Your time off is the best bet though but would ask does your client know you intend to take 2 weeks off yet?? If he is bothered you need to catch up and you haven't told him you could be in for a spot of bother!

And with my pedant hat on.. Drop the phrase TOIL. Again this is permie speak. You are not getting time off as you are still billing the day. You could phrase it as flexible working arrangements as your contract only states hours not Mon-Fri (I hope). There is an IR35 issue here if permies get TOIL and you are following their process and wording it the same, albeit a small one and easy to work around.

Funny you should mention my planned unavailabilty.

Yep. Did advise him that I was hoping to be away for two weeks end September (worded like a contractor) and checking this wasnt going to cause any problems but funnily he aint got back to me. Puts me in a difficult position cos if he says no its awkward what can I do? Legally I can say get stuffed I'm not available but ultimately it doesnt do your renewal chances any good.....

[northernladuk]

LOL. Maybe. Is that what you do?

Bearing in mind I am not being put under pressure to catch up or about to piss my client off royaly with a 2 week holiday.

Yep. Did advise him that I was hoping to be away for two weeks end September (worded like a contractor) and checking this wasnt going to cause any problems but funnily he aint got back to me. Puts me in a difficult position cos if he says no its awkward what can I do? Legally I can say get stuffed I'm not available but ultimately it doesnt do your renewal chances any good.....

not funnily at all, I would quite expect they need to go and have a good chat about that. I would never have considered taking a 2 week break in my first 3 month contract, particularly when I am needed to catch up and the project has no slack. You are (in my opinion on the matter) a contractor and deliver to the client, particularly at the beginning of my career. I would have planned holiday around a renewal or taken a shorter one (or two). Did they not ask you if you had any holiday plans at the beginning? You may not have but should have informed them you like 2 weeks off at some point and prepped them for it.

Am sure other people disagree and see it their right to take a 2 week holiday when they want but it's not my style. Easy for me to say because I don't like 2 week holidays anyway but still thats my take.

[northernladuk]

But if he wants me to work 5 Saturdays in August and then bill for those 5 missing days in September (i.e. put me down as there when I'm not there) then that suits me fine.

He is gonna have to go whistle if he wants that LOL...

[Wanderer]

Client has asked me if I'd be willing to do this to help catch up. To be fair to them, they said it was totally optional. However, no money in budget for payment so it'd be TOIL. I'm assuming what they mean is I'd be able to take a day off in future but claim it as worked.... Dont want to get stuck with loads of days in credit and no chance to take them.

If you work the days and they offer them as TOIL but then suddenly terminate your contract then you're left high and dry with very little comeback. Remember that you're running a business, not a charity. If you work a day then you bill a day.

So there's no money in the budget to pay you? Well lets imagine that you're engaged on a 12 week contract at 5 days a week so that's 60 days work.

How about you work those Saturdays (6 days a week) over 4 weeks. Rather than take TOIL, bill them for the days but have a written agreement that you will not be offered or accept work for 5 days during a given week of the contracted period (eg, when you want time off). Overall, the total number of days worked will still be 60, the budget is unaffected and you are properly invoicing for days worked. No problem provided the client isn't trying to get something for nothing...

[nomadd]

If you work the days and they offer them as TOIL but then suddenly terminate your contract then you're left high and dry with very little comeback. Remember that you're running a business, not a charity. If you work a day then you bill a day.

So there's no money in the budget to pay you? Well lets imagine that you're engaged on a 12 week contract at 5 days a week so that's 60 days work.

How about you work those Saturdays (6 days a week) over 4 weeks. Rather than take TOIL, bill them for the days but have a written agreement that you will not be offered or accept work for 5 days during a given week of the contracted period (eg, when you want time off). Overall, the total number of days worked will still be 60, the budget is unaffected and you are properly invoicing for days worked. No problem provided the client isn't trying to get something for nothing...

This^

[MarillionFan]

This^

WWS x 2. No way would I bank up work. Remember all those moaning permies who never get to TOIL as they're too busy.

Contractor work you pay as you go.

[psychocandy]

Bearing in mind I am not being put under pressure to catch up or about to piss my client off royaly with a 2 week holiday.



not funnily at all, I would quite expect they need to go and have a good chat about that. I would never have considered taking a 2 week break in my first 3 month contract, particularly when I am needed to catch up and the project has no slack. You are (in my opinion on the matter) a contractor and deliver to the client, particularly at the beginning of my career. I would have planned holiday around a renewal or taken a shorter one (or two). Did they not ask you if you had any holiday plans at the beginning? You may not have but should have informed them you like 2 weeks off at some point and prepped them for it.

Am sure other people disagree and see it their right to take a 2 week holiday when they want but it's not my style. Easy for me to say because I don't like 2 week holidays anyway but still thats my take.

No. Thats it, its not within my first 3 month contract. Current contract ends in august so I didnt think it was appropriate to start asking about time off in future contracts.

Also, FYI, at the start they did ask and I'm sure I did mention that I had plans for the Autumn...