Moving to Germany er maybe. Keeping options open?

[darrenb]

So here I am in Germany. In a hotel. No contract yet. I don't know if I will be working here this year or in London. Just testing the waters really.

I would like to get some of the German red tape out of the way, but don't want to spend too much cash in case I don't get anything. Is it worth getting set up as a Freiberufler before I get a contract? What about getting a bank account? Health insurance? Getting registered as a resident? Of course all of these things have inter-dependencies I am still trying to untangle.

Maybe I should get a contract first, and then do all the rest in a rush?

I do know I will be working less than 183 days (second sight). Maybe it would be easier to use my UK Ltd for work in Germany.

Calling all German experts...

[northernladuk]

So here I am in Germany. In a hotel. No contract yet. I don't know if I will be working here this year or in London. Just testing the waters really.

I would like to get some of the German red tape out of the way, but don't want to spend too much cash in case I don't get anything. Is it worth getting set up as a Freiberufler before I get a contract? What about getting a bank account? Health insurance? Getting registered as a resident? Of course all of these things have inter-dependencies I am still trying to untangle.

Maybe I should get a contract first, and then do all the rest in a rush?

I do know I will be working less than 183 days (second sight). Maybe it would be easier to use my UK Ltd for work in Germany.

Calling all German experts...

Did you read the sticky at the top of this section?

[darrenb]

Did you read the sticky at the top of this section?

The sticky is for people who have already made up their minds.

This thread is a variation on a theme.

[darmstadt]

You can't get a bank account without a job, you can't get a job without a bank account (well you can but its not easy.) In order to do any of those things you need a permanent residence for which you'll need to be registered for which you'll need an address for which you'll need a job (the landlord will probably want to see your contract or payslip.) To register as a Freiberufler with the Finanzamt you'll need a job, ad infinitum....

Get a contract first and then it'll be plain sailing

[BlasterBates]

No don't do anything until you get a contract, no point.

As a freiberufler everything is done as a private person, so actually you don't have to register anything other than yourself as a private person. Once you start filling out VAT returns they'll then lumber into action and give you a different tax code, but that's their job.

That is the amazing thing about the Freiberufler....there is no red tape. There isn't even any regulations about how to do a P&L satetment, your only legal obligation is to fill in your income in a single box on the tax form, that's it, of course it is normal to hand in a set of accounts with it, but this isn't obligatory, though if you didn't they probably would ask for them.

A quirk of German law that goes back a couple of hundred years, that lawyers and doctors are "free".

It's not like registering a Germany co, which is full of red tape, and which don't do or registering a self-employed tradesman (which you don't do because of an additional tax) which is comparable in the UK to a sole trader.

Sometimes though they query your status as a freieberufler, and lets say you just filled out the box on the tax form, then they probably would, which is why it's best to get an accountant to handle any queries.

Wait until you get the contract, then open a private account and a business accountant, and find a "steuerberater", then after a month send an invoice in your own name eg Joe Bloggs to your business bank account. At some point your accountant will start to send VAT returns to the Finanzamt.

[Ignis Fatuus]

You can't get a bank account without a job, you can't get a job without a bank account (well you can but its not easy.) In order to do any of those things you need a permanent residence for which you'll need to be registered for which you'll need an address for which you'll need a job (the landlord will probably want to see your contract or payslip.) To register as a Freiberufler with the Finanzamt you'll need a job, ad infinitum....

Get a contract first and then it'll be plain sailing

Not exactly: I don't have a fixed address yet (staying in hotels) so I can't register as a resident, because I'm not. But I still have to register for tax. So I gave my hotel address but added my Steuerberater's address for communication. However the Darmstadt Steueramt noted that my hotel wasn't actually in Darmstadt, so they sent the file to the Langen Steueramt because that's where I "live". Meanwhile the next week I was in a different hotel.... so it's only been a month and it's time to invoice now, but still no Steuernummer.

OTOH a bank account was easy to open: just passport and driving licence (counterpart w/ home address).

[Ignis Fatuus]

That is the amazing thing about the Freiberufler....there is no red tape.

I'm new to this in Germany but the feeling is familiar from being a contractor in France for years: Profession Libérale, you just do it. After all these years of learning to distinguish carefully between me and my Ltd Co, it comes a relief to just get a job and do it. Why does the UK make it so difficult?

[darrenb]

Thanks BB, IF et al, that clears things up. What I was worried about was that I would run into a situation where a company says, "You're marvellous, we'd like you to start tomorrow, hang on, you're not even registered to work?" But I guess that won't be a problem.

Even though I will only be working 3-6 months, I suppose I will pay taxes in Germany. They are just more deserving. Nobody in Germany voted for Gordon Brown to lead (actually nobody in the UK did either but never mind that).

[darmstadt]

Not exactly: I don't have a fixed address yet (staying in hotels) so I can't register as a resident, because I'm not. But I still have to register for tax. So I gave my hotel address but added my Steuerberater's address for communication. However the Darmstadt Steueramt noted that my hotel wasn't actually in Darmstadt, so they sent the file to the Langen Steueramt because that's where I "live". Meanwhile the next week I was in a different hotel.... so it's only been a month and it's time to invoice now, but still no Steuernummer.

OTOH a bank account was easy to open: just passport and driving licence (counterpart w/ home address).

Okay, I did it over 20 years ago and I think things have got a bit easier since then. I was also staying in a hotel when I registered and used the company office as my address (this was a permie position) and when you do get a place you will have to register that at the relevant Amt. For the bank account I had to show passport, work contract and Aufenhaltserlaubnis (which is no longer required if you're an EU citizen.)

If you're contracting in Darmstadt have you looked at the Prinz Heinrich apartments to stay in?

[Ignis Fatuus]

Okay, I did it over 20 years ago and I think things have got a bit easier since then. I was also staying in a hotel when I registered and used the company office as my address (this was a permie position) and when you do get a place you will have to register that at the relevant Amt. For the bank account I had to show passport, work contract and Aufenhaltserlaubnis (which is no longer required if you're an EU citizen.)

If you're contracting in Darmstadt have you looked at the Prinz Heinrich apartments to stay in?

Looks good but I have my accommodation sorted, thanks.