Moving to Germany er maybe. Keeping options open?

[darrenb]

By the way, as a Freiberufler, are you still expected to deal with HR as an employee would, or is it more usual to deal with the business directly? I've already had one bad experience with a German HR department blocking me from a position that fit my skills exactly, and would like to avoid them if at all possible.

[BlasterBates]

By the way, as a Freiberufler, are you still expected to deal with HR as an employee would, or is it more usual to deal with the business directly? I've already had one bad experience with a German HR department blocking me from a position that fit my skills exactly, and would like to avoid them if at all possible.

No just the purchasing or contracts department. Normally you work through an Agency. No different to the UK really, just it happens to be the most tax efficient solution to work as a "Freiberufler".

[TykeMerc]

No just the purchasing or contracts department. Normally you work through an Agency. No different to the UK really, just it happens to be the most tax efficient solution to work as a "Freiberufler".

Out of interest what's the nearest equivalent in the UK to this "Freiberufler" status? Self employed sole trader?

[darmstadt]

By the way, as a Freiberufler, are you still expected to deal with HR as an employee would, or is it more usual to deal with the business directly? I've already had one bad experience with a German HR department blocking me from a position that fit my skills exactly, and would like to avoid them if at all possible.

As BB has stated its very much like the UK in that you'll probably go through an agency although I have found that there is more paperwork to sign, even from the companies side. One bit of paper I recall signing a number of times was for contracts over 6 months to state that I would not consider myself an employee of the company after that period of time and ask for such things as holiday pay or redundancy as in Germany if you worked for a company for more than 6 months you could be considered an employee.

Most of my work is through software houses or consultancies and even when dealing direct with a company I have never, ever had to deal with HR here.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Out of interest what's the nearest equivalent in the UK to this "Freiberufler" status? Self employed sole trader?

I guess self-employed sole trader who is a consultancy rather than a business. I stand ready to be corrected here.

Strangely, the French make a distinction too between differenct types of self-employed people: you can be a farmer, an "artisan" (you make, install, or fix things), a commercial trader (you buy and sell things), or Profession Libérale (you sell your knowledge).

Of course the UK makes a distinction too: sod off we want you in PAYE not self-employed so we'll hound you until you give up, and if you don't then your clients will, out of justifiable fear that we will do them for your tax.

[darrenb]

Most of my work is through software houses or consultancies and even when dealing direct with a company I have never, ever had to deal with HR here.

Good to hear that. I once wrote to the management of a German software company looking for a contract, and they put me through HR who wasted a lot of my time and then killed me. Always wondered if I made a mistake somewhere. Maybe I should have refused to deal with HR, and continued to address the management.

[BlasterBates]

Good to hear that. I once wrote to the management of a German software company looking for a contract, and they put me through HR who wasted a lot of my time and then killed me. Always wondered if I made a mistake somewhere. Maybe I should have refused to deal with HR, and continued to address the management.

That's different, that isn't going to work. German companies don't employ freelancers directly normally, they work through agencies, as in the UK. You need to find the agencies and consultancies that work with freelancers, and then obviously you wouldn't be dealing with HR.

If you were to approach a company for a contract where they normally employ permanent staff, then I could imagine they'd fob you off on to the HR dept, and then the HR dept will probably say no, unless there were exceptional circumstances.

[darrenb]

That's different, that isn't going to work. German companies don't employ freelancers directly normally, they work through agencies, as in the UK. You need to find the agencies and consultancies that work with freelancers, and then obviously you wouldn't be dealing with HR.

If you were to approach a company for a contract where they normally employ permanent staff, then I could imagine they'd fob you off on to the HR dept, and then the HR dept will probably say no, unless there were exceptional circumstances.

All true. In this case the HR department claimed they had "lots of contracts" so I thought "OK maybe Germany is different" and I let them lead me on for a bit, but it turned out they were just playing with me. HR people do that.

Personally I would prefer to pick which company I would like to work with and apply to it directly (as a freelancer that is, not a wageslave!) I don't like the agency system. But I accept we do not live in an ideal world. Not even in Germany apparently.

[darrenb]

You know the market is good in the UK right now. That is normal in the March-May period.

I'm wondering if Germany has the same kind of seasonal variations? I.e. booming in April and dead in December.