Monday.com?

[Jimbo54]

I'm in a contract that has an "outside" determination, and a contract that ticks all the boxes for "outsideness". I work from home, on my own PCs, using my own software and my own internet link. All good so far.

However, the client has decided that they want to use "Monday.com" to improve scheduling and task allocation. I believe this is dangerous WRT IR35 and I'm about to pull the plug on the contract if I can't get confirmation one way or the other.

Does anyone out there have knowledge or experience with Monday.com and might be able to help me clarify the risks

Thanks

Jimbo

[ladymuck]

Monday.com is a pretty rubbish interface. It feels like a poor person's Jira. Interestingly, a previous client connected it to Jira to show certain types of tickets to the business. I guess maybe it's cheaper than giving the business access to view stuff in Jira?

Anyhoo...

So, if you think of Monday.com like Jira or DevOps, it's essentially the same thing. It's a system for tracking tasks. It can be considered an IR35 risk if they're using it to direct and supervise you. However, if you're able to look at a list of jobs, pick the ones you are going to work on and are left to get on with it as long as the work is done by the deadline agreed to the agreed quality, then it could be less of a risk.

You need to consider the whole package of working practises, not just one tool. You could see it as a means to prove that you've delivered against your SOW, for example.

[CheeseSlice]

Monday was introduced on my last project. The PMs spent ages drooling over it and getting approvals to purchase it. All of this whilst kicking their actual responsibiities (like setting up project & governance) down the road, burning precious project time and energy on procuring a shiny new tool.
Like a lot of productivity tools it was used for a bit, no training was provided, nobody was assigned to own or control it, and it just kind of filled up your inbox with messages and notification spam..
After about 1 month the PMs just slid back onto Excel as if it never happened, and then tried Azure DevOps for a bit, and ultimately back to Excel again.
Great project that...

WLMS for your IR35 question..

[hobnob]

I'm in a contract that has an "outside" determination, and a contract that ticks all the boxes for "outsideness". I work from home, on my own PCs, using my own software and my own internet link. All good so far.

I think there are plenty of permies who work from home and/or BYOD. I think it's rare for the employer/client to provide the internet link (rather than a VPN). So, I'm not sure that those things count towards an "outside" determination.

I'm not saying that you're inside, but focus on the 3 pillars: MoO, RoS, and SDC.

[courtg9000]

I have had these people try and sell me their product.
Its very " hows yer father!"
Could it determine inside/outside - in my own view, yes.
Is it critical to your delivering deliverables? If you were working for me, the answer would be no, but I know what im doing.

[WTFH]

What's the difference between project planning in Monday.com, Microsoft Project, Jira or an excel spreadsheet in terms of IR35?
Answer: none.
They are all used by various parties to plan and manage projects efficiently. If a PM uses Microsoft Project, does that put you inside IR35? No.
It's not the project management software that defines what your status is.

[edison]

What's the difference between project planning in Monday.com, Microsoft Project, Jira or an excel spreadsheet in terms of IR35?
Answer: none.
They are all used by various parties to plan and manage projects efficiently. If a PM uses Microsoft Project, does that put you inside IR35? No.
It's not the project management software that defines what your status is.

Agreed. It can be a bit too easy to get hung up on what really are minutae of a role when the key tests of status are much more important.

I've worked at two recent clients that loved Monday.com; one even eventually won some sort of award for some of the work they did using it and presented at a Monday.com conference.

I wasn't a great fan of it but where I did use it in anger, high level tasks were transferred from others and allocated to me on a Monday board but importantly, these were only ever ones that aligned with the agreed SOW. Also, I had complete control over how I delivered any specific deliverable.

[edison]

Monday was introduced on my last project. The PMs spent ages drooling over it and getting approvals to purchase it. All of this whilst kicking their actual responsibiities (like setting up project & governance) down the road, burning precious project time and energy on procuring a shiny new tool.
Like a lot of productivity tools it was used for a bit, no training was provided, nobody was assigned to own or control it, and it just kind of filled up your inbox with messages and notification spam..
After about 1 month the PMs just slid back onto Excel as if it never happened, and then tried Azure DevOps for a bit, and ultimately back to Excel again.
Great project that...

WLMS for your IR35 question..

Sounds a bit like where I am now. The client has different IT teams using different tools. Service Now for most small BAU tasks, JIRA in development and a couple of the more digital/agile focused teams are starting to use Azure DevOps. No doubt there are others using MS project and also at a PMO/Portfolio level, they are using another tool which doesn't seem to integrate with any of the others.

I've been tasked with trying to bring this closer together so that we have a better view of demand and also supply planning. Not easy so far!

[northernladuk]

I'm in a contract that has an "outside" determination, and a contract that ticks all the boxes for "outsideness". I work from home, on my own PCs, using my own software and my own internet link. All good so far.

However, the client has decided that they want to use "Monday.com" to improve scheduling and task allocation. I believe this is dangerous WRT IR35 and I'm about to pull the plug on the contract if I can't get confirmation one way or the other.

Does anyone out there have knowledge or experience with Monday.com and might be able to help me clarify the risks

Jimbo

It's not knowledge or experience on Monday.com that you are fundamentally missing. It's your IR35 knowledge. Not sure where you've read about IR35 but you are just playing perma-contractor tickboxing without understanding anything about IR35. Every single comment bar non in the paragraph above is the typical contractor myths, 101 contracting or whatever you want to call it. You've seen some words, believed it and taken it as gospel without understanding it.

You need to go back to square one and start again. Understand what you are, why you are and how you are. Then look at and understand why HMRC doesn't agree with the answers to those three questions and then you need to dig in to the legislation as to why they don't think it to form the argument and then understand it. It's your job, you need to understand it better. The biggest danger to your IR35 status right now is you. Not the client, not HMRC, you.

The quick answer is using Monday.com or whatever tool the client has has absolutely no bearing on your outside determination. Proper company staff like TCS/Infosys and I bet a lot of smaller consultancies at your client are using it and they are proper businesses in their own right.

And some guidance on where to look to start understanding IR35 has been mentioned by Hobnob. Look for the three pillars and understand them to start with.

[northernladuk]

Ahh the lightbulb moment..

https://forums.contractoruk.com/gene...ml#post2700194

I can normally rely on my accountant, he's been instrumental in keeping me on the right side of IR35 for 20 years...

That explains it all but you've got much bigger problems now. Sounds like a clear MSC problem to me. You need to read up on that... fast.