All Government roles to be 60% on-site

[agentzero]

I was told this was going to happen about a month after starting an inside contract last year. As I live in W. London, and the dept I'm currently working in is based in Newcastle, there is zero chance it's going to happen. Even if I did drag myself into the overcrowded airless offices in London I'd be the only person from my team there, so the whole thing is pointless.

If/when it comes to a head, I've been quite open about the fact I'll be off.

Well done. It never stops amazing me how many contractors here post and boast about subservience to a client. The very idea of attending a government office where all or most team members aren't even present shows a real disconnect between many of the old guard diehard types on this forum who jump when a client says so.

[oliverson]

There are good reasons why people should fight against this. We've fought this using common sense.

People are based all over the UK in many departments. The best and most sought talent aren't all sitting outside public sector buildings waiting to come in. The current 60% office working mandate sees compliant robots go to their nearest gov UK office and sit on Teams meetings all day with people not on their project and people they don't know.

For London centric roles inside IR35 are people here - NorthernladUK, seriously suggesting people should obey this mandate without protest? On my projects we would have to change people to second rate contractors for sure if we went down this route and still hear complaints about travel expenses.

The roles many contractors and consultants are doing aren't the same as permanent staff but are defined as inside IR35.

If you are a mug, go in to the office. If you're at the top of your game but stuck inside IR35 you should not be pandering to these 60% office working mandates and should actively be complaining. One person refusing out of one hundred will see that person managed out. Ninety people complaining out of one hundred and not adhering to the 60% rule will have a real effect.

If you're not a proper contractor then sure, roll over, but if you are in the top third of contractors there is no way you should be accepting this. Most people I work with (90% + ) are not accepting it and not going in unless for critical meetings where other project workers are in at the same site.

Going back to the old days of bums on seats and not even in the same office, sitting on Teams all day, might suit the desperate, but just get a permanent job near your home and stop delaying the inevitable.

Son, your ego is writing cheques your body can't cash!!

[mogga71]

There are good reasons why people should fight against this. We've fought this using common sense.

People are based all over the UK in many departments. The best and most sought talent aren't all sitting outside public sector buildings waiting to come in. The current 60% office working mandate sees compliant robots go to their nearest gov UK office and sit on Teams meetings all day with people not on their project and people they don't know.

For London centric roles inside IR35 are people here - NorthernladUK, seriously suggesting people should obey this mandate without protest? On my projects we would have to change people to second rate contractors for sure if we went down this route and still hear complaints about travel expenses.

The roles many contractors and consultants are doing aren't the same as permanent staff but are defined as inside IR35.

If you are a mug, go in to the office. If you're at the top of your game but stuck inside IR35 you should not be pandering to these 60% office working mandates and should actively be complaining. One person refusing out of one hundred will see that person managed out. Ninety people complaining out of one hundred and not adhering to the 60% rule will have a real effect.

If you're not a proper contractor then sure, roll over, but if you are in the top third of contractors there is no way you should be accepting this. Most people I work with (90% + ) are not accepting it and not going in unless for critical meetings where other project workers are in at the same site.

Going back to the old days of bums on seats and not even in the same office, sitting on Teams all day, might suit the desperate, but just get a permanent job near your home and stop delaying the inevitable.

100% agree. I work for a major Bank in the Wharf and I have not been into the office for 1.5 years. All London contractors there have the option to be fully remote. 6 months ago they attempted to get all the permies into the office 3 days a week .... now they are lucky if some go in 3 times a month. The problem is as soon as you have one example of somebody not adhering to it then it all gets very messy.

If they suddenly insisted I need to go in then I would simply jack it in. WFH is the only good thing about the job. The rest is a total shambles and getting worse. I remember when development used to be fun.

[agentzero]

Son, your ego is writing cheques your body can't cash!!

I carry a cheque guarantee card.

Look, unless you're living in London within cycling distance of the office and all your contractor project workers are too, your body is going to be in quite a bad state from years of commuting in a car, train, bus or combination of all three. The longer the journey, the more time you are wasting. Yes, you can watch netflix on the train, but you're doing it because you're wasting valuable life time sitting. Endless sitting.

I've never been able to be healthier, now that I'm 100% WFH. I've WFH since 2017, so this isn't new to me just because of the pandemic.

[eek]

100% agree. I work for a major Bank in the Wharf and I have not been into the office for 1.5 years. All London contractors there have the option to be fully remote. 6 months ago they attempted to get all the permies into the office 3 days a week .... now they are lucky if some go in 3 times a month. The problem is as soon as you have one example of somebody not adhering to it then it all gets very messy.

If they suddenly insisted I need to go in then I would simply jack it in. WFH is the only good thing about the job. The rest is a total shambles and getting worse. I remember when development used to be fun.

The problem is the only value of being in an office is that everyone is in the office. Otherwise it’s just another teams / zoom meeting with the added hassle of getting to and from clientco

[SussexSeagull]

Can only speak for myself but I assess every contract on it's own merits of which one of the criteria is now how often I am expected to attend the office.

If there is one that involves me having to come to an office once or more a week but it is great in other areas (money, work sounds challenging, etc.) then I will still do it. That doesn't make me a mug, it makes me a working contractor who hasn't developed an ideological hatred of attending an office.

[avonleigh]

I sat an online Speed Awareness Course at the weekend, delivered via Zoom and the one thing that occurred to me was how ridiculous everybody's 'working from home' setup was, especially compared to mine, which is world class. All these people squatting in broom cupboards, dining rooms and corridors, etc., are no doubt the sames ones claiming they are MORE PRODUCTIVE working from home. In actual fact they are stealing from their employers.

The reality is that after 100% WFH, nobody wants to get up on a cold dark morning, hack the ice off their car and make their way through traffic jams to try get to their desk at an ungodly hour. I'm one of them. But fortunately I do have this fantastic setup, a client that has always been 100% WFH and always will be. I'm also old and I've earned my stripes both in my field of expertise and putting in the desk duty for around 40 years. So for me, being effective 100% WFH is the reality and I doubt I'll return to the office anytime soon, if ever. BUT, for the vast majority of people with tulip home setups, who have still to learn their craft, get back in the f***ing office most of the time!

What a totally ridiculous post. What exactly does an IT person need to work from home? A laptop and broadband. That's it. You are no more productive in your swanky office with your nice leather chair than somebody who works from a kitchen table. Jesus.

[northernladuk]

What a totally ridiculous post. What exactly does an IT person need to work from home? A laptop and broadband. That's it. You are no more productive in your swanky office with your nice leather chair than somebody who works from a kitchen table. Jesus.

Bit strong calling it ridiculous. They evidenced their argument at the beginning. There are people that don't have a kitchen table, have crap chairs which are wrong height, other family members working from home, kids, house shares with tiny rooms yadda yadda. You still need a good working environment to work safely and effectively. That can't be argued. Oliverson evidenced many people live in situations that aren't really acceptable for work and they are many out there. I'd be willing to guess the percentage of people with a safe, comfortable environment to work in for a full working day vs those that don't would be pretty small taking the whole populace in to account. You are comparing yourself to the rest of the population that live in environments you're not used to. Yes there are people will full setup, many with a workable solution but rafts of people that simply don't. Can't use your own standards when trying to comment on the populace as a whole.

And you working environment is only one consideration but I'm with Oliverson on this one.

[hobnob]

The problem is the only value of being in an office is that everyone is in the office. Otherwise it’s just another teams / zoom meeting with the added hassle of getting to and from clientco

That depends on the type of work you do. In my case, I'm currently working as a network engineer, so there's a physical element to what I do (e.g. moving equipment in/out of racks or swapping cables around). Likewise, suppose that ClientCo says "we're migrating from Windows 10 to Windows 11, we'll drop off 50 laptops with you every morning to rebuild, then collect them in the evening". You'd need to be on-site to do that.

In terms of collaboration, I agree with you. I had a previous contract where the client was keen on hot-desking. That meant that I'd be in the same building as my team, but not necessarily in the same room (or even on the same floor). There were times when I had to sit in the canteen (because all the desks were taken), using Teams to chat to other people, so there was no benefit to me being on-site; I could have done that just as well from home.

[gixxer2021]

There are good reasons why people should fight against this. We've fought this using common sense.

People are based all over the UK in many departments. The best and most sought talent aren't all sitting outside public sector buildings waiting to come in. The current 60% office working mandate sees compliant robots go to their nearest gov UK office and sit on Teams meetings all day with people not on their project and people they don't know.

For London centric roles inside IR35 are people here - NorthernladUK, seriously suggesting people should obey this mandate without protest? On my projects we would have to change people to second rate contractors for sure if we went down this route and still hear complaints about travel expenses.

The roles many contractors and consultants are doing aren't the same as permanent staff but are defined as inside IR35.

If you are a mug, go in to the office. If you're at the top of your game but stuck inside IR35 you should not be pandering to these 60% office working mandates and should actively be complaining. One person refusing out of one hundred will see that person managed out. Ninety people complaining out of one hundred and not adhering to the 60% rule will have a real effect.

If you're not a proper contractor then sure, roll over, but if you are in the top third of contractors there is no way you should be accepting this. Most people I work with (90% + ) are not accepting it and not going in unless for critical meetings where other project workers are in at the same site.

Going back to the old days of bums on seats and not even in the same office, sitting on Teams all day, might suit the desperate, but just get a permanent job near your home and stop delaying the inevitable.

Don’t complain or protest, just make sure if you’re going to be 100% remote that’s it’s written into your contract, that includes inside/umbrella gigs. I’ve done that for all my contracts since before Covid, both outside and inside. Occasionally client managers have attempted to get me “back into the office”, but have been shut down pretty quickly.