QDOS or IPSE

[JackMaloney]

I've been paying QDOS for IR35 insurance over the past few years, partly because of the 50k legal cover for any investigation. The contract is up for renewal in a couple of weeks and I thought i'd do some digging to try and understand if this is worth it, and came across IPSE. This has 100k legal cover for any investigation. I just wondered if anyone on here thinks QDOS IR35 insurance is actually worth it? When you take out the insurance, you have to declare that you work in an outside IR35 compliant way. If you were ever investigated, and HMRC deemed you actually worked inside IR35, surely that declaration to QDOS would become invalid and so you could never receive the insured amount?

So from what I can tell, IR35 insurance from QDOS is almost pointless and IPSE should be the way to go?

[malvolio]

I'm saying nothin'...

[jamesbrown]

In general, IR35 (tax loss) insurance is worthless.

There needs to be a reasonable prospect of success for a case to be pursued. If there's a reasonable prospect of success, you're almost certainly outside. If there isn't, you aren't covered. There's an argument that a company like QDOS would actually want to see a claim made for marketing purposes, but there's such a narrow window in which a claim could be made that it's a complete waste of money IMHO.

IPSE is a bit crap too, but I say that as a member and, overall, it's probably still value for money (just about), so better than QDOS or similar. With IPSE+, you get quite a bit more than legal expenses cover, but you don't get tax loss insurance for the fairly straightforward reason that it's worthless.

[courtg9000]

QDos all the way if you are depending on the product.
I was having a chat with a contact of mine just before crimbo and IPSE came up in the conversation. Some rumours were doing the rounds apparently.

[malvolio]

QDos all the way if you are depending on the product.
I was having a chat with a contact of mine just before crimbo and IPSE came up in the conversation. Some rumours were doing the rounds apparently.

Rumours about internal politics and economics from what I heard, not member representation. AFAIK the support element is still fully in place.

The other option is to talk to Markel Tax directly. May cost a little more but without all the baggage of the other two...

[courtg9000]

Rumours about internal politics and economics from what I heard, not member representation. AFAIK the support element is still fully in place.

The other option is to talk to Markel Tax directly. May cost a little more but without all the baggage of the other two...

I heard a lot more serious than internal politics and economics.

[malvolio]

I heard a lot more serious than internal politics and economics.

They're in a reducing market thanks to Chapter 9 and 10's depredations with a reducing income, meaning lots of necessary cost saving. That doesn't mean they are about to disappear or leave their members without cover.

The internal politics are important; they can no longer justifiably claim to be member led. However the members still own the organisation.

There's always lots of scaremongering and criticism (not least from me!) around IPSE over the last ten years or so. They're still here. Compare that risk to that of a commercial organisation who could quite easily turn off a market that doesn't pay its way.

[eek]

They're in a reducing market thanks to Chapter 9 and 10's depredations with a reducing income, meaning lots of necessary cost saving. That doesn't mean they are about to disappear or leave their members without cover.

The internal politics are important; they can no longer justifiably claim to be member led. However the members still own the organisation.

There's always lots of scaremongering and criticism (not least from me!) around IPSE over the last ten years or so. They're still here. Compare that risk to that of a commercial organisation who could quite easily turn off a market that doesn't pay its way.

Oh it may mean they will disappear simply because the remaining membership may not be enough to cover the running costs and the rapidly dwindling reserves will only last so long.

not that I’ve looked at recent accounts but from my memory they were dire the last time I looked and if anything the market has changed for the worse since then.

[courtg9000]

Oh it may mean they will disappear simply because the remaining membership may not be eb]nough to cover the running costs.

not that I’ve looked at recent accounts but from me port their were dire last time I looked and if anything the market has changed for the worse since then.

Quite possibly. To paraphrase my contact (who is effectively a corporate vulture - he buys outright or buys into businesses embarrassingly cheaply and also has a record for getting people to pay him handsomely to take them off their hands! ), not enough dosh stashed under the mattress for a rainy day.

[jamesbrown]

They've been on a downward trend since 2018:

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...TED/financials

So, yeah, they will need to reshape - moving office will've saved them a lot, but it's still anyone's guess as to whether they'll be around in, say, 5 years.