Temporary working from EU for a UK based client through umbrella company

[philgo]

Hello,

I have requested to work remotely from France for 15 days to my client line manager. She said yes but asked me to request it formally via their internal process which I did. It was then reviewed by the client group international legal team who answered negatively with details below.


Looking into the social security / national insurance coverage under the agreement between the UK and the EU we will no longer be able to approve voluntary remote working arrangements within the EU and EEA countries


To date we have relied on EU Directive concerning the posting of workers in the framework of the provision of services and it's corresponding adoption under the Trade and Cooperation Agreement to the UK, to exempt "Client Agency" brands and their associates from social security contributions in the remote working country. However this exemption is only available where the employer sends/posts the worker to the other EU or EEA country and not when the associate elects personally to work remotely.

Consequently, A1 (Social Security exemption certificate) will not be granted for employees who are not technically posted/sent to work in another EU/EEA country. The A1 is the only document that is accepted as confirmation of coverage and effective exemption for the employer/employee from social security in the country of physical work, creating a risk of double social security liability. Historically, such risk was reduced by an EU communication, but this would not apply now.


I have never heard about the above before and thought/heard they were a limit of 40/50 day a year ish before any tax impact like double social security liability are triggered.

I also don't understand why they mentioned that the "Client Agency" would have NI/Social Security coverage issue while my umbrella is paying for that. Surely my Umbrella should be the one having the issue as they are my employer.

As first step, I have requested to my Umbrella to get this answer reviewed by their legal/compliance service.

Any thoughts or knowledge about voluntary temporary remote working from Europe for a UK based client as a contractor using a Brolly?

[northernladuk]

What's your plan here? Prove them wrong and hope they change their mind? Even if they are that's a big ask. Whatever the rules are, if it's out of the clients risk comfort zone then they'll say no regardless. Doesn't matter what is possible, if the client says no then that's that I afraid.

Worth trying I guess but I doubt the client will really want to start pushing their comfort zone for a contractor wanting to work away for 15 days.

Got to weigh up if there will be any fall out rocking the boat as well but only you'll be able to judge that from peoples tones/attitudes at the client.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

Clearly, your client has no issue with your working abroad from a data protection perspective (most don't, assuming a non-sensitive industry i.e. intelligence, health etc).

You've been tripped up by HR box tickers that have gotten themselves overly concerned with National Insurance payments while you work from abroad.

The reality is, HR gave you a total nonsense answer. They really don't know what they're talking about in this respect (the specific response they sent you).

My opinions on this topic area well known and most will disagree with me here.

If I were you, I would have just gone for 15 days without telling them assuming you understand the data protection issue (if any exist). A roaming SIM card will even shows your IP address as coming from the UK.

Your only real option here is to take leave for 15 days. Any other advice from me would be unethical

[philgo]

The first purpose is to share with the community and understand if they are strict rules as this is a very grey area with so many layers (final client/ client agency/ brolly/employee = myself). It might be useful/ not useful for the current contract but extremely useful when searching for new contracts. It will be actually now a new question I will ask during future interviews.

Whether or not I am gonna fight with a big corporation is another question as you said down to my discretion. But obviously unless you have a ready plan B in hands you are probably not gonna risk to lose a contract because of this 15 days issue.

[philgo]

Clearly, your client has no issue with your working abroad from a data protection perspective (most don't, assuming a non-sensitive industry i.e. intelligence, health etc).

You've been tripped up by HR box tickers that have gotten themselves overly concerned with National Insurance payments while you work from abroad.

The reality is, HR gave you a total nonsense answer. They really don't know what they're talking about in this respect (the specific response they sent you).

My opinions on this topic area well known and most will disagree with me here.

If I were you, I would have just gone for 15 days without telling them assuming you understand the data protection issue (if any exist). A roaming SIM card will even shows your IP address as coming from the UK.

Your only real option here is to take leave for 15 days. Any other advice from me would be unethical

That was coming from International legal team not HR . Then I am with you on this one....That's why I am sharing this story....I don't think that 15 days remote working is triggering any NI/Security Social issue.

[northernladuk]

My opinions on this topic area well known and most will disagree with me here.

Because it's utterly stupid and highly unprofessional.

If I were you, I would have just gone for 15 days without telling them assuming you understand the data protection issue (if any exist). A roaming SIM card will even shows your IP address as coming from the UK.

Obviously we've had a very long discussion on this with you before and you were the ONLY one to suggest this out of many responses. The slightly difference here is the client has said no which they hadn't in the other hypothetical question. So in this case you are clearly going against the clients directions and also in this case (yet to be fully proven) the client has a real legal reason why they cannot allow it.

Based on this your advice to go anyway us just utter stupidity at the highest level. Going against their flat no is bad enough but to then put them in a bad legal position is inexcusable and highly unprofessional. The former could get you binned, the latter could get you in deep legal problems. Yes it's never happened (that we know) but that's because people generally don't have the poor attitude you do and follow their clients directives.

Your only real option here is to take leave for 15 days. Any other advice from me would be unethical

Any other advice? You've got more?

[northernladuk]

That was coming from International legal team not HR . Then I am with you on this one....That's why I am sharing this story....I don't think that 15 days remote working is triggering any NI/Security Social issue.

But it's not your call to make.

The first purpose is to share with the community and understand if they are strict rules as this is a very grey area with so many layers (final client/ client agency/ brolly/employee = myself). It might be useful/ not useful for the current contract but extremely useful when searching for new contracts. It will be actually now a new question I will ask during future interviews.

As I say, doesn't matter what the law is. Will the client allow it? No? Reasons? Doesn't matter it's a no. Even more so now it's legal that's said no and not HR. They won't be paying lawyers £400 a time to re-check their situation so you can go.

[philgo]

But it's not your call to make.



As I say, doesn't matter what the law is. Will the client allow it? No? Reasons? Doesn't matter it's a no. Even more so now it's legal that's said no and not HR. They won't be paying lawyers £400 a time to re-check their situation so you can go.

No not my call hence I requested legal/compliance from my Brolly to look at it cause I wanna know the rules if they are. Brolly is paying NI not Client agency so I would like to understand.

I'm sorry I strongly disagree. It can matter to know what you rights are in life and in business. Then it's down to each person and the way they conduct business.

[eek]

No not my call hence I requested legal/compliance from my Brolly to look at it cause I wanna know the rules if they are. Brolly is paying NI not Client agency so I would like to understand.

I'm sorry I strongly disagree. It can matter to know what you rights are in life and in business. Then it's down to each person and the way they conduct business.

Being blunt - any sane Brolly is going to go with the line - what does the end client say...

[northernladuk]

I'm sorry I strongly disagree. It can matter to know what you rights are in life and in business. Then it's down to each person and the way they conduct business.

To be fair I can't disagree with that.