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Agency offering rates they can never pay...

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    Agency offering rates they can never pay...

    So i have been contracting for the best part of 20 years and have mainly had good experiences with agencies and thankfully only a handful of issues but, I have found out that the current agency has spun me a total yarn around rates - which I am sure won’t come as a surprise to many but this 'scam' is a new on to me (as far as I a aware!).

    Essentially the agency contacted me about a role and I was submitted at the rate I wanted, was interviewed at that rate and subsequently got the role. What happened from then to me starting was apparently the client had amended their budget and the rate I was being offered was a lot lower... I wasn't chuffed and explained this to the agent but was convinced it was all down to the client and their budgets.

    I have since found out that the agency never put me over at the rate I asked for and as such could never have paid me what I wanted and that no such conversations ever took place with the client around budgets... apart from telling the agency to shove it and letting the client down is there anything I can do as I also know the agency is actually still taking a sizeable 19% margin - but I am not supposed to know about that.
    Apologies if this topic has raised is head here before but I couldn't find any similar content. I would be keen to get opinions if this has happened to others and how they dealt with it... much appreciated.

    #2
    it is business and everything you have learned in the process is hearsay. You do not know what the client is actually paying for you so you have to rely on the honesty of the people.

    they are interested in keeping you going and blaming someone else so would not be surprised if the figures are different. You have no alternative of finding the truth anyway since it is part of their business agreement.

    Next time stick to your guns and negotiate the terms how you want them to be. If they really wanted you they would have made space for your demand. Otherwise it is the same, happy go lucky distorted narrative where narratives are controlled by the agencies and they make ever increasing profits. Clients do well as well but the contractors get stuffed.

    Contractors should learn, first of all how to stand for themselves, how to negotiate and how to sell themselves.
    This is not the crowd that goes for pensions, benefits and are happy that they have cake in the office and ping-pong table.

    I am sorry but I don't think you will find any sympathy around here.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Elrosso View Post
      So i have been contracting for the best part of 20 years and have mainly had good experiences with agencies and thankfully only a handful of issues but, I have found out that the current agency has spun me a total yarn around rates - which I am sure won’t come as a surprise to many but this 'scam' is a new on to me (as far as I a aware!).
      The fact you go straight for the term 'scam' leads me to believe it won't be. Everytime something happens someone doesn't like they ask if it's illegal or a scam and it never is.

      Re the bold bit, I'd put a very big chunk of money on the fact it isn't but ignorance is bliss.

      Essentially the agency contacted me about a role and I was submitted at the rate I wanted, was interviewed at that rate and subsequently got the role. What happened from then to me starting was apparently the client had amended their budget and the rate I was being offered was a lot lower... I wasn't chuffed and explained this to the agent but was convinced it was all down to the client and their budgets.
      Very common this. Usually the agent pulling the wool over gullible contractors eyes but in some cases it can indeed be the client. Unlikely though. The fact they convinced you it's the client puts you in the gullible box. They'll play you like an old fiddle if they pick up on that.
      I have since found out that the agency never put me over at the rate I asked for and as such could never have paid me what I wanted and that no such conversations ever took place with the client around budgets
      So they've strung you along thinking you'll sign and swallow it. I assume the lower rate is quite a bit off maket price so they've been devious knowing this but put you forward in the hope you'll still sign when the truth comes out.
      ... apart from telling the agency to shove it and letting the client down is there anything I can do as I also know the agency is actually still taking a sizeable 19% margin - but I am not supposed to know about that.
      Apologies if this topic has raised is head here before but I couldn't find any similar content. I would be keen to get opinions if this has happened to others and how they dealt with it... much appreciated.
      This happens all the time. The agent comes back with a lower offer on the contract so you just refuse and move on. Sometimes the agent sees that you are serious and may come back with better offers but if the client budget is no where near then you won't get what you want. So you say thanks, but no thanks and by the way I think your methods suck and I'll be telling everyone I know, goodbye.

      19% isn't a really really bad amount. It depends on the size of the client and number of contractors the agent has on site. All about scale of quantity. For a large client with 100's of contractors the lowest rates tend to be 6-10%. If there are only a handfull of contractors on site and the agent has to put time in to resourcing 19% isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

      You've encountered an unfortunate situation where the agent has been a little devious, probably because the client is a tulip payer, it's unravelled at contract time and it's not for you so you move on. Not uncommon and nothing to get worked up about.

      And I was right, wasn't a scam
      Last edited by northernladuk; 8 July 2021, 16:13.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #4
        forgot to mention, in the negotiation you should try at least 2 hands. If what they come up with is not satisfactory push for another figure. Play another card. You should NEVER accept what they first push forward.

        You should always be ready to move on as well because you are not a permi desperate to pay bills and keep wifey happy, YOU ARE A BUSINESS. Agency is very happy but you are not doing any good for the market as well because both the client and agency thinks: we've found a fool at this rate and he is happy, we will find another one.

        It is how business works, this is not permi land. Learn to stand for yourself and negotiate.

        "never split the difference" by Chris Voss is a good starting point but the rest is life and business experience.

        HTH

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post
          forgot to mention, in the negotiation you should try at least 2 hands. If what they come up with is not satisfactory push for another figure. Play another card. You should NEVER accept what they first push forward.

          You should always be ready to move on as well because you are not a permi desperate to pay bills and keep wifey happy, YOU ARE A BUSINESS. Agency is very happy but you are not doing any good for the market as well because both the client and agency thinks: we've found a fool at this rate and he is happy, we will find another one.

          It is how business works, this is not permi land. Learn to stand for yourself and negotiate.

          "never split the difference" by Chris Voss is a good starting point but the rest is life and business experience.

          HTH
          Maybe they should go ask the employer hey...
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

            Maybe they should go ask the employer hey...
            unfortunately that is how they see it. it's not their fault because all the mixing narratives push that way but it is not the right way to negotiate your way in as a contractor.

            it is the most prevalent mentality here I am afraid because that is what they've been though in school, that is what they've seen in the corporate world -> that is what they replicate. BUT IT IS ALL WRONG.

            Comment


              #7
              If it is not an outright scam, it is a confidence trick, which is almost as bad.

              Time wasters. Name and shame them.

              If they did that to me i would string them along for as long as possible, even accept the offer subject to reviewing contract terms.
              Make them draw up the paperwork. Then review the contract for as long as possible and then tell then to stuff it.
              Last edited by Fraidycat; 8 July 2021, 17:43.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post

                "never split the difference" by Chris Voss is a good starting point but the rest is life and business experience.

                HTH
                Thanks for the book reference!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Regardless of whether they put you forward at your asking rate or not I have found more often than not, the agents would try and push your rate down.
                  Happened to me this week after a great interview with a client.

                  Agent calls the next day, says he received great feedback and he feels the client would go for me if I went for a 10% lower rate. That was definitely not an offer from the client, as they told me during the interview that they would let me know either way after midweek. I said not interested.

                  One day later agent calls and says the client offered me the contract... surprise, surprise I got my asking rate.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    At the end of the day you've been made an offer. You can accept or decline. If you have no other alternatives then you need to consider how long it will take you to get a contract at the higher rate. If you end up for one or two months more without a contract, you're probably still better off accepting the contract at the current rate.

                    In order to ensure you get a high rate you need multiple leads. If you're only following one lead, you have a weak hand.
                    I'm alright Jack

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