choosing inside and outside IR35

[GitMaster69]

That's a silly attitude. Only people who don't have bills to pay or a healthy war chest truly have a choice in the matter.

silly? We need to show foxtrot oscar to companies forcing IR35 on us via blanket bans

[Lance]

silly? We need to show foxtrot oscar to companies forcing IR35 on us via blanket bans

Realistically all that's happening now is client's are exerting the control they mostly always had, and definitely always wanted.
For years they've had to pay top dollar for prima-donna contractors, of whom only a few acted correctly. Now they aren't competing for outside contractors (that mostly never existed really) then can exert the control they always wanted.

Shut up and code. B*tch...!

NOTE. Blanket bans on PSCs is not the same as inside IR35. Or do you mean blanket determinations? (which are unlawful and uncommon as far as I'm aware).

[eek]

silly? We need to show foxtrot oscar to companies forcing IR35 on us via blanket bans

Blanket ban isn’t inside IR35 - it’s a very different argument. Blanket bans occur because senior management don’t trust their staff not to screw things up.

I really wish people would take the time to carefully pick their arguments.

dave Chaplin is a prime example complaining that the FCSA is not doing something about holiday pay abuses in a company doing joint employment deals - when the FCSA is explicit that they only deal in their very narrow niches

[northernladuk]

silly? We need to show foxtrot oscar to companies forcing IR35 on us via blanket bans

I wish people would get this bit right. Blanket ban is not inside IR35. Blanket ban on PSCs or blanket determination. It's pretty key.

[eek]

I wish people would get this bit right. Blanket ban is not inside IR35. Blanket ban on PSCs or blanket determination. It's pretty key.

Blanket determination isn’t anything like a blanket ban on the use of PSCs

and role based determinations are perfectly legal - it’s just global determinations that everyone is inside that aren’t.

and then you have agents who don’t 100% know what’s going on and say the wrong thing

either way there are a lot of things that may result in a contract being “inside” IR35 most of which will be because the contract is simply just additional staff (by another means) or because HMRC has scared the Finance / HR Director

[northernladuk]

Blanket determination isn’t anything like a blanket ban on the use of PSCs

and role based determinations are perfectly legal - it’s just global determinations that everyone is inside that aren’t.

and then you have agents who don’t 100% know what’s going on and say the wrong thing

either way there are a lot of things that may result in a contract being “inside” IR35 most of which will be because the contract is simply just additional staff (by another means) or because HMRC has scared the Finance / HR Director

I know this. That's what I said? Just makes it very complex to discuss when people use completely the wrong phrase. Simes did it the other day and totally ruined whatever half decent argument he might have had.

[GitMaster69]

Realistically all that's happening now is client's are exerting the control they mostly always had, and definitely always wanted.
For years they've had to pay top dollar for prima-donna contractors, of whom only a few acted correctly. Now they aren't competing for outside contractors (that mostly never existed really) then can exert the control they always wanted.

Shut up and code. B*tch...!

NOTE. Blanket bans on PSCs is not the same as inside IR35. Or do you mean blanket determinations? (which are unlawful and uncommon as far as I'm aware).

blanket determinations uncommon? Have you been living under a rock? The entire financial industry did nothing but that.

[Lance]

blanket determinations uncommon? Have you been living under a rock? The entire financial industry did nothing but that.

sigh....

No. They have blanket banned PSCs...... They are not stupid enough to to blanket assessments as that's NOT LAWFUL.

[GitMaster69]

sigh....

No. They have blanket banned PSCs...... They are not stupid enough to to blanket assessments as that's NOT LAWFUL.

sorry I miss the difference. Me as an "outside" contractor , having a business. Can I have financial client?

....

NO

call it as you want blanket ban blanket or determination. The result is I can't work there as I will not abandon my business because they wish so

[Lance]

sorry I miss the difference. Me as an "outside" contractor , having a business. Can I have financial client?

....

NO

call it as you want blanket ban blanket or determination. The result is I can't work there as I will not abandon my business because they wish so

but you're missing the point. They won't engage with your LTD. That makes IR35 totally out of scope. You will be an employee of them, their agency, or an umbrella.
They're not asking you to abandon your company.
They want a member of staff. If that's not for you then fine. But there's bugger all you can do about it. They've made their choice.

Details are important if you ever want to be engaged an outside IR35 contractor ever again so pay attention to them.