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You thought IR35 was bad.

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    #11
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

    And as tedious as they are they are always the right advice. He's in a pickle with what his agency have told him about his situation. The agency should also have a solution and know what is possible in his situation so they are the best people to advise. If an agency said to you no LTDS and no Umbrellas, surely your next question would be 'So what do I do now?' and they tell you? How are we supposed to know?
    PAYE would be the only remaining option. Or turn permanent I guess.
    Last edited by sira; 4 March 2021, 18:31.

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      #12
      Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
      I've been working via my own Ltd Co for years. I finished last Feb and managed to get a contract last Sept but client wouldn't allow suppliers to provide resources via PSC, so joined an Umbrella and took the hit in rate; anything during COVID was a plus.

      Just received a mail from my agency saying Client will no longer engage individuals who operate under PSC's AND will not be allowing umbrella companies into the supply chain. This is coming into effect 1st April.

      What now?
      TBH mate I would go back to the Client and ask ... 'Are you sure about that?' ... as that makes absolutely zero sense. I would wager that somebody somewhere has got their wires crossed and view PSC's and Umbrella Companies as the same thing.

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        #13
        Originally posted by mogga71 View Post

        TBH mate I would go back to the Client and ask ... 'Are you sure about that?' ... as that makes absolutely zero sense. I would wager that somebody somewhere has got their wires crossed and view PSC's and Umbrella Companies as the same thing.
        Depending on how you read the transfer of debt provisions within the new IR35 rules it makes perfect sense to me.

        Unless the end client is 100% sure of their supply chain the risk is theirs. And just because the umbrella is an FCSA member that may not be enough.
        merely at clientco for the entertainment

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          #14
          Originally posted by eek View Post

          Depending on how you read the transfer of debt provisions within the new IR35 rules it makes perfect sense to me.

          Unless the end client is 100% sure of their supply chain the risk is theirs. And just because the umbrella is an FCSA member that may not be enough.
          Surely if that were the case then all the Banks would have also banned the use of Umbrellas instead of advocating them? The Banks were the ones that got the blanket 'everybody now inside' ball rolling and employ more contractors than anybody else in the private sector. They would have most to lose wouldn't they?

          Cue email in next few days saying I need to abandon my Umbrella.

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            #15
            Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
            Just received a mail from my agency saying Client will no longer engage individuals who operate under PSC's AND will not be allowing umbrella companies into the supply chain. This is coming into effect 1st April.
            Good. I don't understand why umbrella companies even need to exist (although no doubt some smartarse will be happy to explain to me how stupid I am).

            If a client wants my services but doesn't want to engage me via my limited company, and they don't want to actually, you know, employ me (God forbid), why can't the recruitment agency do all the payroll stuff? I don't need yet another middle-man taking a cut.

            My current client (a consultancy) wants me to stay on after April 1st, working through an umbrella. So the consultancy's client pays the consultancy for my work, the consultancy then pays the agency, the consultancy then pays the umbrella company, and the umbrella company pays me. It's ridiculous. At least two of the parties in this arrangement are not contributing anything very useful.
            Last edited by CatBlack; 4 March 2021, 12:20.

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              #16
              Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

              Good. I don't understand why umbrella companies even need to exist (although no doubt some smartarse will be happy to explain to me how stupid I am).

              If a client wants my services but doesn't want to engage me via my limited company, and they don't want to actually, you know, employ me (God forbid), why can't the recruitment agency do all the payroll stuff? I don't need yet another middle-man taking a cut.

              My current client (a consultancy) wants me to stay on after April 1st, working through an umbrella. So the consultancy's client pays the consultancy for my work, the consultancy then pays the agency, the consultancy then pays the umbrella company, and the umbrella company pays me. It's ridiculous. At least two of the parties in this arrangement are not contributing anything very useful.
              LOL ... top post.

              The whole thing is crazy. The sheer lunacy of some clients telling their contractors that they now have to use an Umbrella ... meaning the contractors effectively then need to employ an employer.

              One thing worth noting though ... some contractors (me included) had the choice of using my agents PAYE or an Umbrella. I chose an Umbrella due to them allowing full 40k pension payments without first paying employer NI. My agency refused to do it ... and as far as I can tell, so do most others.

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                #17
                Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

                Good. I don't understand why umbrella companies even need to exist (although no doubt some smartarse will be happy to explain to me how stupid I am).
                careful what you wish for

                Originally posted by CatBlack View Post
                If a client wants my services but doesn't want to engage me via my limited company, and they don't want to actually, you know, employ me (God forbid), why can't the recruitment agency do all the payroll stuff? I don't need yet another middle-man taking a cut.
                There are plenty that do. Hays, RSG, Capita, Morsons, as examples of the top of my head. They are large enough to run a HR/payroll department. Small agencies want to focus on being oily salesmen.


                Originally posted by CatBlack View Post
                My current client (a consultancy) wants me to stay on after April 1st, working through an umbrella. So the consultancy's client pays the consultancy for my work, the consultancy then pays the agency, the consultancy then pays the umbrella company, and the umbrella company pays me. It's ridiculous. At least two of the parties in this arrangement are not contributing anything very useful.
                What makes you think if the agency did your payroll they wouldn't take an extra cut? Of course they would cos you'd allow them as your alternative would be to find an umbrella who will take a cut.

                See You Next Tuesday

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                  #18
                  Originally posted by CatBlack

                  Tiresome isn't it. This forum could be a useful resource but unfortunately almost every thread is hijacked by a handful of condescending, arrogant know-it-alls arguing the toss, so finding any useful information is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

                  If this contributor in particular behaves in his professional (or personal) life anything like he does on here, then it's no wonder so many permies think contractors are total w***ers.
                  Be kind to the guy. He's been on this forum for over 12 years, day in, day out, providing the same useless comments. He's still unable to distinguish between those who just want to rant / comment on the market and those who actually need help to wipe their a***.

                  45,000 posts later. Imagine spending all your time doing that and making zero difference in the process. But I agree - fresh blood is needed. I propose those with more than 10 posts / year of membership refrain from posting for a couple of weeks and see what the effect will be. Zero.

                  Actually, watch how the board's quality improves. This is about contracting - not brain surgery.

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                    #19
                    Little reminder, this is in the professional forums. No slagging each other offer. There's general for that. Off topic posts removed.
                    Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
                      Little reminder, this is in the professional forums. No slagging each other offer. There's general for that. Off topic posts removed.
                      You missed the one above your post. https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2866931
                      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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