Brexit/IR35 and Working Abroad

[jamesbrown]

So in the case of clients with UK presence, be it an office for example, am I required by law to get a status determination? Or can I simply play dumb and let them sort it out if HMRC comes knocking? Already with Qdos and have their IR35 insurance, so I'm prep'd-ish, haven't reviewed the current contract but read through it and it has loads of IR35 proof clauses. Work is very much outside, absolutely no control, direction etc.,

Currently doing work for a Swedish company with an office in Denmark (which is where the team is) via a Danish agency. Both the agency and client have offices in the UK, so theoretically the client is liable and should provide status determination, but what if they don't?

It's on them. You could ask for it and keep a record of your asking. Otherwise, complete the assessment yourself and assume that the responsibility/liability is with you. In those circumstances, there can be no suggestion of fraud on your part and, worst case scenario, you've done your own due diligence when the responsibility/liability was yours. The best, and most probable, scenario is that the liability and responsibility lies elsewhere and the supply chain has fubared. Many supply chains will.

[dsc]

The best, and most probable, scenario is that the liability and responsibility lies elsewhere and the supply chain has fubared. Many supply chains will.

Actually this sounds about right, the client has a London office, but I very much doubt they have any idea what goes on in the Danish office as I wouldn't be surprised those are separate entities. So I can imagine no one in the UK knows I'm doing work for the Danish office but I'm actually based in the UK and the Danish office has no clue about IR35, so wouldn't be asking any related questions anyway. Originally the agency expressed concerns that I'm in the UK, but that was more to do with Brexit, which later on they accepted and never mentioned again. Perhaps if the agency was in the UK they would be raising questions, but as they are in Denmark as well, I'm 95% sure they have no idea what IR35 is.

[Lance]

Actually this sounds about right, the client has a London office, but I very much doubt they have any idea what goes on in the Danish office as I wouldn't be surprised those are separate entities. So I can imagine no one in the UK knows I'm doing work for the Danish office but I'm actually based in the UK and the Danish office has no clue about IR35, so wouldn't be asking any related questions anyway. Originally the agency expressed concerns that I'm in the UK, but that was more to do with Brexit, which later on they accepted and never mentioned again. Perhaps if the agency was in the UK they would be raising questions, but as they are in Denmark as well, I'm 95% sure they have no idea what IR35 is.

I wonder quite how HMRC would enforce the UK presence to be liable in this case anyway.
I imagine HMRC would just leave it alone as too complex to go after one individual, or come after you directly.
As long as you're not blatantly doing an inside role and just hoping the liability lies elsewhere you'll be fine I'm sure.

[jamesbrown]

I wonder quite how HMRC would enforce the UK presence to be liable in this case anyway.
I imagine HMRC would just leave it alone as too complex to go after one individual, or come after you directly.
As long as you're not blatantly doing an inside role and just hoping the liability lies elsewhere you'll be fine I'm sure.

Indeed. They will be looking for low hanging fruit within UK companies that have a lot of UK contractors. Overseas supply chains are complex and most definitely not low-hanging fruit, so just cover your **** and forget about it.

[dsc]

I wonder quite how HMRC would enforce the UK presence to be liable in this case anyway.
I imagine HMRC would just leave it alone as too complex to go after one individual, or come after you directly.
As long as you're not blatantly doing an inside role and just hoping the liability lies elsewhere you'll be fine I'm sure.

Well that is exactly what I was thinking, they would have to basically say that the client should've engaged via their UK office even though the work done has feck all to do with that office and / or the UK as a country, so why the hell would the client go down this route in the first place? Besides, it would be effectively telling the client how to run their business which I'm sure they would just laugh at. This whole "UK presence" seems rather retarded and imho represents scenarios where HMRC is well out of their jurisdiction.

[m0n1k3r]

I'm currently working from home in the UK (ltd company), through a Dutch agency to a Danish consultancy for a Danish end client. Naturally I am outside IR35.
Why would any of the entities I work through/to give a toss about IR35 and UK legislation should HMRC investigate and decide I'm inside IR35?

They won't. They only care about their responsibilities towards their own tax authorities. The HMRC is your own concern. If the HMRC would ask your EU clients for information, there's a likelihood they won't even bother to answer the HMRC. Strictly speaking, it's in their own interest to not answer anything (if they at all answer) that would give the HMRC the impression that you have any sort of decision making or representative authority on behalf of your foreign client as it would give them a fixed establishment in the UK and therefore become subject to the HMRC themselves (as has happened).