Direct approach

[SteelyDan]

Government department paying extra because the contract is suddenly outside - I doubt it because the Government / public sector rules kicked off in April 2018 and they aren't changing.

Suddenly INSIDE, not outside.

[eek]

Suddenly INSIDE, not outside.

care to answer the actual point rather than my mistake - but the point is that if this is a public sector department / agency / company that 25% uplift doesn't exist.

What's the consultancy? Equal Experts?

[SteelyDan]

care to answer the actual point rather than my mistake - but the point is that if this is a public sector company that 25% uplift doesn't exist.

What's the consultancy? Equal Experts?

I mentioned that just so as to be clear, not to highlight your mistake.
All I know is what I've just been told by the Consultancy HR person, so I assume they've had discussions with the client at some point previously, & that's what their rate card allows them to bill the client post-April. I'm not going to question their finance model, but my query was if the 25% uplift was a standard percentage figure in general use?

[eek]

I mentioned that just so as to be clear, not to highlight your mistake.
All I know is what I've just been told by the Consultancy HR person, so I assume they've had discussions with the client at some point previously, & that's what their rate card allows them to bill the client post-April. I'm not going to question their finance model, but my query was if the 25% uplift was a standard percentage figure in general use?

Nope - it's usually zero...

The client has a budget that is being used to get a resource. Unless they are completely unable to find a resource for that budget the rate is going to change.

[Lance]

I mentioned that just so as to be clear, not to highlight your mistake.
All I know is what I've just been told by the Consultancy HR person, so I assume they've had discussions with the client at some point previously, & that's what their rate card allows them to bill the client post-April. I'm not going to question their finance model, but my query was if the 25% uplift was a standard percentage figure in general use?

I don't think there is a standard for expecting the client to pay more to solve the contractors tax position.
The question should surely be whether it's enough for you.

I agree with eek though. If it is public then there's no reason to change in April. Of course it may be that the consultancy is responsible for the determination and they don't want the risk.
If that is the case then they are probably funding the 25% themselves so ask for it early.

[SteelyDan]

I don't think there is a standard for expecting the client to pay more to solve the contractors tax position.
The question should surely be whether it's enough for you.

I agree with eek though. If it is public then there's no reason to change in April. Of course it may be that the consultancy is responsible for the determination and they don't want the risk.
If that is the case then they are probably funding the 25% themselves so ask for it early.

OK it seems that the rate card allows a max rate of 'y'.
I've asked for x, to which they've agreed, & if the role does ultimately move to inside (April) the rate card allows my rate (x) to be increased by 25% while remaining within rate card max (y).
I suspect therefore that if I'd asked for a higher rate, then the % uplift might not have reached 25% if it would exceed the rate card max.

All that said, I'll address the inside possibility nearer the time, and be happy for the short term (3 month) outside piece of work.

[eek]

OK it seems that the rate card allows a max rate of 'y'.
I've asked for x, to which they've agreed, & if the role does ultimately move to inside (April) the rate card allows my rate (x) to be increased by 25% while remaining within rate card max (y).
I suspect therefore that if I'd asked for a higher rate, then the % uplift might not have reached 25% if it would exceed the rate card max.

All that said, I'll address the inside possibility nearer the time, and be happy for the short term (3 month) outside piece of work.

Which does open up the next question why does the client think the work is inside come April as nothing beyond who is responsible for the determination has changed?

[Fraidycat]

So, just had a call with these guys & sounds promising. They're a Tech consultancy providing services to a gov org. Initially it's outside, good rate though, probably one of my highest. Client seems to be insisting post-April that all contractors should be inside. Chap I've been talking to (HR) suggests an uplift of 25% on current rate. Is that calc about right? Can't believe how much tax etc.!!

25% is not enough.

Lets say you are on £500 a day outside.

You might need to increase to between £670 perhaps even £700 a day (if you have high expenses), which is a 35% to 40% increase.

I think £700 a day nets about £395 when inside IR35.

£670 nets just £380 a day when inside.

[eek]

25% is not enough.

Lets say you are on £500 a day outside.

You might need to increase to between £670 perhaps even £700 a day (if you have high expenses), which is a 35% to 40% increase.

I think £700 a day nets about £395 when inside IR35.

£670 nets just £380 a day when inside.

Up lift actually doesn't matter as most people won't be seeing any uplift.

The actual issue is lack of expenses for the commute to the client unless it's 100% from home.

[SteelyDan]

25% is not enough.

Lets say you are on £500 a day outside.

You might need to increase to between £670 perhaps even £700 a day (if you have high expenses), which is a 35% to 40% increase.

I think £700 a day nets about £395 when inside IR35.

£670 nets just £380 a day when inside.

Yes you're not too far off with your lower set of figures
There are no expenses as it's fully remote until at least June 2021